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Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of "erotic" interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children



> *TRIGGER WARNING* in case it wasn't painfully obvious for this thread by
> now.

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:08:01PM +0100, Markus Koschany wrote:
> - wait until the game is actually licensed under a free license
> - try to avoid crossposting to keep the noise down
> - ask some people to review the story who actually understand the
>   language

+1

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:19:07AM +0100, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
>  To make sure that all involved people who want to pursue with execising
> their right to free speech

I'll start with the news that I have changed my mind on sponsoring this.
(Sorry about that, Nils, I hope you understand.)  People whose opinion I
highly value of asked this; thank you for that advice.  I thought many
people were misunderstanding the game, but given Jo's context I might
have been wrong about that; I just didn't see most of the controversial
parts during my test.

In any case, the reason I changed my mind is not that I wanted to "pick
a different fight", as was suggested by Russ.  I didn't want to have any
fight at all.  I wasn't trying to "defend free speech"; what I saw of
this game (assuming sex scenes are removed) was simply a good game with
a controversial subject.  Nothing too worrying, and I didn't expect the
response to be anything like this.

I still think many people are overreacting, but perhaps that's what we
should expect from people outside of Debian as well.  Regardless, I am
not willing to take part in this fight.

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 08:59:01AM +0000, Jo Shields wrote:
> Bernd And The Mystery Of Underageville is a game by, and for, a
> German-language 4chan-style image board, Krautchan. The users of that
> forum are generically referred to as "Bernds" - it's no accident that
> the protagonist's name is Bernd, one of the developers uses Berlin Bernd
> as a pseudonym, and that the "dev team" is called BerndSoft.

This is news for me, and explains some of the details in the game.
Thanks for mentioning this.

> So what's the content, exactly? Well, I'm no domain expert on this.
> Fortunately this is the Internet, and there are plenty of domain experts
> on the content to be found.
> ...

I also was not aware of this context; I think it is relevant and means
that the game is much more controversial than I thought.

> "It's the one where Muhammad lets you fuck his child bride."

On the other hand, if you decide to kill him, Bernd comments that "he
has finally done something right".

> Thankfully, since the Code of Conduct GR hasn't passed yet, I can say,
> ...

There really was no need for that.

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 11:07:20AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> Before all this discussion gets out of hand, I'll try to summarize my
> understanding of the situation as it is now:
> 8) We trust the FTP Masters. Up to now, they have proven that they are
> sensible people who work hard to make Debian the best they can, as we
> all do. Thanks, guys!

+1!

> 10) Fortunately, the debate has been polite and civil up to now
> (meaning no insults, personal attacks and the such), and confined to
> the Debian project itself. We really don't want to transform this into
> a fight of external groups using Debian as a battle field for their
> own political battled.

+1!

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 11:53:59AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> 2014-03-14 11:30 GMT+01:00 Vincent Cheng <vcheng@debian.org>:
> > (If replying to me via debian-women or debian-legal, please cc me as
> > I'm not subscribed to those lists.)

Please don't make this thread span more lists than needed; subscribers
of those lists know about the debate, and that it is continued on
debian-devel-games.

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 11:19:40AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> I agree with you and I support your proposal.
> 
> If someone has any objections to that, or any reasons to do otherwise,
> please, say so.
> 
> In other case, I think it would be a good thing to agree on that officially.

For the record, I agree too.

Thanks,
Bas

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