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Re: Bug#707851: Soften the the wording recommending menu files: let's do it in Jessie.



No comment from the GNOME and KDE teams ?  What do you think of the corrections
that I proposed below, and of the patch in general ?

Cheers,

-- Charles

Le Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 08:40:33AM +0900, Charles Plessy a écrit :
> Hi Steve, Jonathan, and Josselin,
> 
> thanks to the two first of you for your comments.  Josselin, there is a
> question for you below.
> 
> About the lack of guidance, I think that it is a weakness of my wording, where
> for instance I used "applications" in one case and "programs" in the other
> case, but did not underline what difference is meant.  For the media types,
> section 9.7.2 basically says that mailcap should be used if desktop entries
> are not used, but indeed this information could come earlier.  I am proposing
> corrections below.
> 
> 
> Le Sun, Jan 05, 2014 at 02:33:20PM -0800, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > On Sun, Jan 05, 2014 at 02:53:12PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> > > 9.6. Menus
> > > ----------
> > 
> > >      Two menu systems are used in Debian: the _FreeDesktop menu_ and the
> > >  1   _Debian menu system_.  Packages shipping applications that belong to
> > >      one or both menu systems should provide the necessary entry files to
> > >      integrate with them.
> > 
> > It doesn't tell maintainers how to
> > determine which menu system their package belongs to, and it doesn't tell
> > maintainers of packages that want to consume a menu which one they should
> > use.
> 
> How about:
> 
>     Two independant menu systems are used in Debian.  The FreeDesktop menu
>     covers graphical applications that comply with minimal requirements of
>     integration described below.  The Debian menu system covers all graphical
>     applications and interactive text-based programs.  Packages shipping
>     applications that belong to one or both menu systems should provide the
>     necessary entry files to integrate with them.
> 
> I think that now this clearly shows that everything that is covered by the
> FreeDesktop menu system is also covered by the Debian menu system.
> 
> 
> > Furthermore, I think the idea of an application "belonging" to one system or
> > the other is misplaced.
> 
> I welcome suggestions if "belonging" can be better replaced by something like
> "relevant to", "in the scope of", etc.
> 
> 
> > >         * In doubt, the package maintainer should coordinate with the
> > >           maintainers of menu implementations through the _debian-desktop_
> > >           mailing list in order to avoid problems with categories or bad
> > >           interactions with other icons.  Especially for packages which are
> > >           part of installation tasks, the contents of the
> > >           `NotShowIn'/`OnlyShowIn' keys should be validated by the
> > >           maintainers of the relevant environments.
> > 
> > As a first cut this seems ok, but I would prefer to see more concrete
> > guidance recorded in policy about what values of NotShowIn/OnlyShowIn should
> > be used and when.
> 
> Josselin, it would be tremendous to have your input here since you wrote that
> paragraph.  Others are of course welcome to make suggestions.
> 
> 
> > > 9.7. Multimedia handlers
> > > ------------------------
> > 
> > >      Media types (formerly known as MIME types, Multipurpose Internet Mail
> > >  3   Extensions, RFCs 2045-2049) is a mechanism for encoding files and data
> > >      streams and providing meta-information about them, in particular their
> > >      type and format (e.g.  `image/png', `text/html', `audio/ogg').
> > 
> > >  #   Registration of media type handlers allows programs like mail user
> > >  #   agents and web browsers to invoke these handlers to view, edit or
> > >  #   display media types they don't support directly.
> > 
> > >      Packages which provide programs to view/show/play, compose, edit or
> > >      print media types should register them using either the _FreeDesktop_
> > >      system or the _mailcap_ system.
> > 
> > Again, I do not believe an either/or recommendation is appropriate here.
> 
> How about, in replacement of the previous paragraph:
> 
>     There are two overlaping systems to associate media types to programs which
>     can handle them.  The mailcap system is found on a large number of Unix
>     systems.  The FreeDesktop system is aimed at Desktop environments.
>     In Debian, FreeDesktop entries are automatically translated in mailcap
>     entries, therefore packages should only use one system at a time.
> 
> I expect that maintainers of packages with a FreeDesktop menu entry will
> spontaneously declare media types through it and that it is not necessary to
> explicitely tell them which one to chose.  I welcome suggestions of wording
> if you think it can be improved.
> 
> 
> Le Sun, Jan 05, 2014 at 02:39:41PM -0800, Jonathan Nieder a écrit :
> > 
> > Do we have clear advice about
> > 
> >  (1) how to write a menu entry for my console app (or niche graphical
> >      app) without cluttering the menus used by the standard desktops
> > 
> >  (2) when, roughly, it is appropriate to use that facility to hide my
> >      menu entries
> 
> Hi Jonathan,
> 
> I think that it is not recommended to declare FreeDesktop menu entries for
> non-graphical programs and that it is more obvious now with the clarifications
> that I proposed.   For hiding entries, let's iron it out (see above), but the
> final way to determine when it is appropriate is to contact the debian-desktop
> mailing list.
> 
> 
> Have a nice day,
> 
> -- 
> Charles Plessy
> Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan
> 
> 
> -- 
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-- 
Charles Plessy
Debian Med packaging team,
http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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