On Wednesday 18 May 2005 17:13, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> On 18-05-2005 00:26, Sergio Talens-Oliag wrote:
> > El Tue, May 17, 2005 at 10:44:07PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard va escriure:
> > Of course if a derived distribution prefers to have it's own
> > repository it can have its description package outside Debian and use
> > the same tools that CDD use, but the idea about Custom Debian
> > Distributions has always been that they should be included on the
> > Debian distribution.
>
> That the actual distribution should be included within the Debian?
> Like "Debian ships its main distribution consisting of 2-3 DVDs 1st of
> june and expects to ship its Skolelinux distribution a few weeks after
> that"?
I see no fundamental reason that (ones we've developped the necesarry tools
to be able to do everything we want in a good way inside of Debian) we
couldn't have a:
Debian releases it's new stable on 1st of june, the following flavors will
be available:
- debian-vanilla: delivers a normal generic computer setup by default
- debian-edu: gives you a schoolnetwork ready to go out-of-the-box
- debian-np: gives you the tools for running a non-profit ready to go
out-of- the-box
...
-> we currently have flavors based on how you want to install (netboot,
ISO, ...), we'd just be adding flavors in the dimention 'what purpose will
this machine serve.
> My idea is that the moment all parts of a CDD is part of Debian, the CDD
> has become irrelevant: The main Debian distribution is then able to do
> all of the CDD itself.
not true at al:
- a computer is a general purpose tool
- depending on how you use that tool you'll want it set up differently ->
which means there will never be 1 perfect-for-everyone set of defaults
=> the relevance of a CDD after integration in Debian is 2-fold:
1) maintain and improve the defaults tuned to your chosen certain purpose
within Debian (and the flexibility of the way you specify them)
2) keep working on improving the usefullness of using Debian for your chosen
purpose
> I mean - until Debian asks only a couple of non-geeky questions by
> default in order to roll out a system usable as a school network,
> Skolelinux will continue to generate its own CD-based distro _outside_
> of Debian, and while it makes sense to include the _generator_ of CDDs
> (cddtool) it does not make sense to clutter the Debian package pool with
> "sample uses of the cddtool distro-generator". Those fit better as files
> below /usr/share/doc/cddtool/examples/ IMHO.
no,no,no: the whole point of CDD's is to allow people to use Debian for a
specific purpose without having to bother with the how, telling people
welll yes it's possible, here's a tool that'll allow you to do that
_completely _ throws that idea overboard.
As a CDD you're not catering to the people interested in *building* a
computerenvironment suited to there needs, you're catering to those that
simply want it to work out-of-the-box, without having to worry about the
mechanics of it at all.
Now exactly how to do this inside of Debian is a question we're all still
trying to find the best answer to, ideally we wont have to 'clutter' the
package pool
> >>So I suggest changing the current definition of CDD (as described at
> >>http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?CustomDebian ) from currently reading
> >>"all extras they offer will either become part of Debian, or are
> >>temporary workarounds" to add "except what is relevant to the CDD only
> >>(selection of packages, unique config tweaks, custom logo and so on)".
> >
> > I believe the definition is right, if it has things outside Debian
> > that are never going to be included then we are talking about a Derived
> > Distribution, that is all, it can use and share almost everything with
> > the Debian Distribution, but it is not 100% Debian.
it'd amend this as "If they have things outside of Debian that they're not
looking to find/create an alternative for inside of Debian"
> So Skolelinux is then just a "Cool Debian Derivative" and not a "Custom
> Debian Distribution" (due to including SUN Java)?
No (IMO), the necessity of including the SUN jave is a temporary state, as
we're waiting (and to some extend pushing) to get Free Java to be a
workable solution (from the point of view of schools), we're just not quite
there yet
Note that I'm not saying we should precludes providing _add-ons_ (definately
not core pieces) to a CDD outside of Debian by the CDD-team
> I believe that's not how they identify themselves (I am referring to
> them in third person because actually I agree with your definition even
> though I participate in their project).
I observe that:
1) Skolelinux is as much inside of Debian as it _currently_ can be (given
the in-development nature of CDD infrastructure inside Debian)
2) Skolelinux is pushing for/helping develop the CDD-infrastructure
necessary to allow them to exist completely inside of Debian very much
-> hence I see them as a (prototype) CDD, it doesn't implement a complete
CDD vision just yet (but then no current CDD does IMO), but it most likely
will at some point in the future
--
Cheers, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis)
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