Bug#835507: Please clarify that sysvinit support decision is not going to expire
Christian Seiler schreef op 28-08-2016 10:07:
... warehouse of troubles that need a million hours of employment
each year to keep it going ...
- you will hate the day when you discover you've been scammed ...
Or, when other people constantly and irrationally bring up
libsystemd0 again and again (see the current debian-devel thread),
then sorry, these kinds of comments make me lose any motivation in
still working on helping people out with sysvinit. It's becoming
more and more appealing to me to just say "screw sysvinit users",
I don't care anymore. I'm not there yet, but I suspect that I'm not
the only one who feels that way, so please, continue with this kind
of rhetoric, and see where you'll be at in a few years.
Actually that is not such a bad thing; I find that if the motivation
doesn't come natural, then there is a good reason to stop doing it; and
just doing it because people please you or it pleases people, is not a
very good reason after all either.
I know the language is exaggerated but it is not actually all that
I simply do not trust people who make a livelihood out of having
problems, that's all.
I do not trust policemen to solve crime, psychiatrists to cure mental
illness, teachers to make people independent, governments to liberate
people and systemd people to have you have a problem-free existence in
your system ;-).
I am sorry but seeing that most everyone who works on Linux works for
one big company, and more problems means more employment, and maybe that
is a rad and unfair way to say it, or to say it here, where such people
may not be the most people in charge.
And I like SystemD's model, and there is a reason I am using it and it
took me at least a year for me to get to the point where I could write
my own service files or knew enough about it to start hacking the system
(only the init system).
It's not just Linux, or not at all Linux, but the world is comprised of
people who make a living by having problems, and more problems is more
And sometimes I feel as though Linux is the way of taking something
simple and creating a difficult solution for it, and then the rest of
your days you are dealing with the difficult solution instead of with
the simple problem.
No, sorry, that's simply patently untrue. There are some good init
scripts out there, but the vast majority of them are just plain
horrible. They kind of work, but they make a lot of assumptions
that break in a lot of corner cases. And writing good init scripts
is _really_ hard, because shell programming is awful. (Useful, but
But "High Availability" tells to me something that would need more
advanced systems to control it. I'm not saying SystemD is all bad, not
It is clear that SysV is rudimentary and broken but it was that way for
a long time. But the power is that you can write your own scripts and it
just doesn't take all that long to find out how to do something or
effect a change since you can just read the code and it is just regular
Bash code mostly.
What I mean is that I am not an avid opponent of Bash scripting and I
quite enjoy it. What I mean is that I am an avid proponent of it ;-).
And so for me something being just "script" is a powerhouse. I don't
need to acquaint myself with the workings and peculiarities of some init
system before I can affect it. They are generic skills. I mean that I
prefer to have rudimentary, simple, scriptful skills that are as basic
as they can possibly get because basic skills are better building blocks
for larger things, than bigger things and more advanced skills.
I mean that if you keep things simple and elementary, you create a more
powerful house, and this has long since been the philosophy of the Unix
I mean that for me it is a personal thing perhaps that I can much easier
work with stuff that requires just programming skills of some sort,
rather than acquaintance and knowledge of a particular system. I mean
that I can work better with that because I already have the skills and I
do not need to acquire them.
So yeah, for me sysvinit scripts are definitely no fallback. From
personal experience I am by _far_ more confident in maintainers
getting systemd services right than in them getting init scripts
right. (Obviously that doesn't mean that people don't get service
files wrong - of course that also happens from time to time.)
I know SysV is rudimentary and not very advanced.
It's just that to me it is that candle that will still work when the
electricity goes down ;-).
Sorry for the language here at times, I know I exaggerate. The
exaggerating stuff is often easier to say than the non-exaggerated