Christian Seiler schreef op 28-08-2016 10:07:
... warehouse of troubles that need a million hours of employment each year to keep it going ... - you will hate the day when you discover you've been scammed ...Or, when other people constantly and irrationally bring up libsystemd0 again and again (see the current debian-devel thread), then sorry, these kinds of comments make me lose any motivation in still working on helping people out with sysvinit. It's becoming more and more appealing to me to just say "screw sysvinit users", I don't care anymore. I'm not there yet, but I suspect that I'm not the only one who feels that way, so please, continue with this kind of rhetoric, and see where you'll be at in a few years.
Actually that is not such a bad thing; I find that if the motivation doesn't come natural, then there is a good reason to stop doing it; and just doing it because people please you or it pleases people, is not a very good reason after all either.
I know the language is exaggerated but it is not actually all that inaccurate.
I simply do not trust people who make a livelihood out of having problems, that's all.
I do not trust policemen to solve crime, psychiatrists to cure mental illness, teachers to make people independent, governments to liberate people and systemd people to have you have a problem-free existence in your system ;-).
I am sorry but seeing that most everyone who works on Linux works for one big company, and more problems means more employment, and maybe that is a rad and unfair way to say it, or to say it here, where such people may not be the most people in charge.
And I like SystemD's model, and there is a reason I am using it and it took me at least a year for me to get to the point where I could write my own service files or knew enough about it to start hacking the system (only the init system).
It's not just Linux, or not at all Linux, but the world is comprised of people who make a living by having problems, and more problems is more money.
And sometimes I feel as though Linux is the way of taking something simple and creating a difficult solution for it, and then the rest of your days you are dealing with the difficult solution instead of with the simple problem.
No, sorry, that's simply patently untrue. There are some good init scripts out there, but the vast majority of them are just plain horrible. They kind of work, but they make a lot of assumptions that break in a lot of corner cases. And writing good init scripts is _really_ hard, because shell programming is awful. (Useful, but awful.)
Alright, corrected.But "High Availability" tells to me something that would need more advanced systems to control it. I'm not saying SystemD is all bad, not at all.
It is clear that SysV is rudimentary and broken but it was that way for a long time. But the power is that you can write your own scripts and it just doesn't take all that long to find out how to do something or effect a change since you can just read the code and it is just regular Bash code mostly.
What I mean is that I am not an avid opponent of Bash scripting and I quite enjoy it. What I mean is that I am an avid proponent of it ;-). And so for me something being just "script" is a powerhouse. I don't need to acquaint myself with the workings and peculiarities of some init system before I can affect it. They are generic skills. I mean that I prefer to have rudimentary, simple, scriptful skills that are as basic as they can possibly get because basic skills are better building blocks for larger things, than bigger things and more advanced skills.
I mean that if you keep things simple and elementary, you create a more powerful house, and this has long since been the philosophy of the Unix world.
I mean that for me it is a personal thing perhaps that I can much easier work with stuff that requires just programming skills of some sort, rather than acquaintance and knowledge of a particular system. I mean that I can work better with that because I already have the skills and I do not need to acquire them.
So yeah, for me sysvinit scripts are definitely no fallback. From personal experience I am by _far_ more confident in maintainers getting systemd services right than in them getting init scripts right. (Obviously that doesn't mean that people don't get service files wrong - of course that also happens from time to time.)
I know SysV is rudimentary and not very advanced.It's just that to me it is that candle that will still work when the electricity goes down ;-).
*Shrugs*.Sorry for the language here at times, I know I exaggerate. The exaggerating stuff is often easier to say than the non-exaggerated stuff. Apologies.
Bart.