On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 01:51:56AM -0600, Tony Thedford wrote:
On 02/18/2014 09:34 PM, Jason Frothingham wrote:
Adopting systemd does not, in any way shape, form, idea, concept,
conclusion, thought, etc. etc. etc. prevent, pervert, divert, etc. etc.
etc. the goal of a computationally stable, bug-free, and flexible operating
First of all, YES it does.. and a lot.. and the majority of competent Debian
users know this, and that is why you are catching so much hell over putting it
Since you must have spoken to "the majority of competant Debian users" to know this...
Could you write up a report of exactly what they said please it would be very
helpful. Or point to the report you read and "quoted"? If not, then stop with
the lies and the FUD.
into Debian. And this is why so many people are coming out of the woodwork to
express their concerns.. they are concerned about the integrity (stable,
You're the third. Perhaps you three the only "competant Debian users"?
bug-free, flexible) of Debian as a viable server and general purpose operating
system for critical applications.. and they don't want it screwed with!
You seem to think that you wont be able to chose not to use Systemd - so you've
not read very much of the debate or done much research. Here is a clue. Systemd
will never make it onto the non-linux ports, so there will always be at least
one other init available. You will always have a choice. And you could step up
to maintain more choice in Debian if you so desired rather than telling other
volunteers what to do. That is "the Debian way".
I have been "coding" since the early 80's, so please don't go there with me, it
doesn't work. I don't care about systemd's capabilities.. that is a mute point.
Perhaps you meant a moot point. A mute point would be very quiet indeed.
Lots of other people do care and have said so in this debate. I happen to be one
using a lot of the new features to great effect, on desktops. AND SERVERS.
All I need to know is that it is an overly complicated, unnecessary piece of
crapware that reduces the integrity of the distribution and that is all that
You have to specific or you'll be accused of FUD. Hand waving and shouting does
_Can_ you give more information on how it is overcomplicated?
If not... quit with the lies and the FUD.
As to you initial question about what I would have the developers do.. I would
say do just that.. develop Debian software that continues to make it a truly
universal operating system and follows the original intent of the Debian way.
Could you quote what "the Debian way" is? Are you a DD involved in defining that
For _me_ one part of Debian has always to excell in making amazing technology
and code available for everyone. Times have changed in twenty years. The linux
kernel is not the same as it was in 1991. Computers are not used in the same
static ways. Debian has to support a huge range of very dynamic systems now, and
sysV just does not cut it. Sure it works _ok_ on static environments - but Debian
supports far more than static servers.
Debian has been around almost as long as the Internet itself..
Debian was started in 1993. The internet... try about 1973. Yes Debian is half
the age of the internet. It is nearly as old as the Linux kernel, and not that much
younger than GNU, but your point is invalidated by lack of truth.
there are a lot
of users out here that don't want to see anyone mess it up! ..Figure out a way
around being stuck having to use udev since it has been co-opted by systemd..
that would be my first task for you!
If you don't want udev, then try Debian Potato. It might make you happy and will
forever have sysvinit. And please stop with the FUD and other trolling.
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Tony Thedford <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
Putting the "systemd" issue on bugs.debian.org is a bit ridiculous I
would say! As to why there are developers within Debian who are
hellbent on turning Debian into buggy desktop software rather than
keeping with the universal operating system directive.. I will never
know! Debian is a major force in global server software and therefore
must remain extremely stable, bug-free, and flexible.. all of which
systemd/gnome crapware nullifies!