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Bug#727708: init system coupling etc.

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 06:09:38PM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> Hi,
> I must admit that I only followed this part of the discussion from a
> distance.
> However, one thing really strikes me:
> On 12/02/14 at 14:08 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > [loose coupling]
> > 
> >    Software outside of an init system's implementation may not require
> >    a specific init system to be pid 1, although degraded operation is
> >    tolerable.
> This is super vague. What does being "outside of an init system's
> implementation" mean? What does "degraded operation" mean?
> If you really want to have that discussion now, rather than wait for
> actual, concrete problems to discuss, I'd suggest that you build a few
> hypothetical scenarios, and discuss them. And then build a resolution
> that represents the aggregated opinions on those few hypothetical
> scenarios.
> But I also don't really understand why there's a particular urgency
> for the TC to rule on that. Are there packages with tight coupling
> already in the archive?

One of the Debian GNOME maintainers has stated in this discussion[1]:

  But there are no realistic solutions for having GNOME support multiple 
  init systems in jessie.

Whether that's actually true is another question, but a maintainer 
speaking like this clearly shows that it is not only a theoretical

Another reason for urgency is that there was actually consensus
in the TC that Debian should multiple init systems.[2] That was
completely lost in all the "Debian chooses systemd" headlines that
followed a widely published resolution that was only about the default 
and didn't cover that aspect.

Or perhaps that's no longer urgent, since the "Debian chooses systemd"
headlines are already in everyone's head, and a later statement
"but we also support other init systems" would anyway not make it
into the news.

> Lucas


[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/01/msg00550.html
[2] the dispute in the TC was about whether depedencies on a specific 
    init system should be allowed - that in general multiple init 
    systems should be supported was consensus among TC members


       "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
        of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
       "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
                                       Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

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