On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 09:53:01AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: > Adrian Bunk <bunk@stusta.de> writes: > > Ubuntu is also using udev and logind without using systemd, so they are > > and will continue to be available stand-alone. > Ubuntu is maintaining a variety of moderately fragile glue in order to > make this happen and currently can't upgrade to the current version of > logind. The reasons for not upgrading to the current version of logind aren't to do with any fragility of the existing glue code (the systemd-shim package), but because logind 205 has a new dependency on systemd as cgroup manager, which is architecturally incompatible with other consumers of cgroups in the ecosystem. This needs to be resolved before logind v205 can reasonably be adopted, because it's broken by design and needs to be worked around. > This strategy clearly causes some problems for Ubuntu and would cause some > similar problems for us. I think everyone agrees that it's > *possible*, but my point is that it's increased work that we otherwise > wouldn't have to incur. I wouldn't call this a problem, so much as the cost of integrating an OS. systemd-shim weighs in at < 2kloc of C code, and is relatively stable. An out-of-pid-1 cgroup manager will bring more code to the table, but only that which is necessary to support systemd-incompatible uses of cgroups. systemd-shim will need extended to bridge between cgmanager and logind. Yes, there's code here that wouldn't need to be written if we all just adopted systemd. But the hidden assumption there is that systemd adequately addresses all the use cases we care about. When you want to support something that upstream doesn't want to support, you get to write code. It seems to me that most of this code would have to be written to support logind on non-Linux anyway, and is a much better choice than supporting consolekit indefinitely for those ports. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org
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