[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Bug#727708: systemd jessie -> jessie+1 upgrade problems

On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 09:43:05AM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 02:53:39PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Adrian Bunk <bunk@stusta.de> writes:

> > > [1] Personally, I am sceptical whether it is a good idea to switch to a
> > >     different init system for jessie. But I am not on a desperate rant 
> > >     against systemd, and if something I bring up can be addressed that
> > >     is positive for me.

> > Just to give fair warning: right now, based on what I know today, there is
> > basically zero chance that I personally will vote retaining sysvinit for
> > jessie above further discussion.  So if you want to convince at least this
> > one member of the technical committee that this is a viable option, you
> > have quite a bit of work to do.

> Where would "further discussion in 1-2 years" rank for you?

> What I suggested earlier in this discussion was not that you vote for
> keeping sysvinit forever, but:
>   * jessie will continue to use sysvinit, and the TC will re-evaluate
>     the situation after the release of jessie

This is equivalent to "let others outside of Debian decide our course for
us".  The Linux ecosystem won't stand still waiting for Debian to make a
decision; if Debian doesn't take a decision this cycle, Upstart will remain
a "single-distro solution" in the eyes of many, which means systemd will
retain its "upstream" soapbox and continue to gather contributors.

Russ rightly points out that there is a momentum gap between systemd and
upstart.  It is not insurmountable, if Debian decides to endorse upstart
today.  But two years further on, it will be.  If Debian wants to replace
sysvinit with something modern, and wants a say in what that replacement
will be, it should decide now.

And if Debian's not going to adopt upstart, then we should adopt systemd
immediately so that we have a say in its direction between now and jessie,
instead of waiting until after jessie and finding ourselves with two more
years of entrenched bugs / design problems to sort out when integrating with

Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com                                     vorlon@debian.org

Reply to: