Re: Bug#535645: Bug #535645: Wrongfull removal of ia32-libs-tools
Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> writes:
> tag 535645 moreinfo
> thanks
>
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> I'm writing to you in the hope that you can facilitate resolving a
>> grievance I have with Joerg Jaspert in his roles as ftp-master and his
>> decision to remove ia32-libs-tools in the name of "The Project".
>
> [...]
>
>> Please help me understand why Joerg just removed my package and
>> hopefully revert that decision.
>
> My understanding is that the CTTE was asked first to clarify the
> reasoning surrounding the removal of ia32-libs-tools et al.; and only
> take up discussions with regards to overriding the decision
> afterwards.
>
> Goswin: have the reasons for removal been clarified to your
> satisfaction, or do you still want the CTTE to consider overriding the
> ftpmasters? [If the latter, I'd suggest summarizing the discussion to
> date as succinctly as possible, with the issues that lead to the
> removal and your position on the severity and/or possible mitigation
> and elmination of those issues. Otherwise, one of us will have to, and
> that'll take longer.]
>
>
> Don Armstrong
So far I have not seen a real clarification from Joerg, only from
Steve Langasek as head of the multiarch proposal. But I guess we can
take his silence as that the reasons Steve gave are the only ones.
With that information I would claim that the ia32-libs-tools issue is
a disagreement between a DD and a maintainer and that falls under the
scope of the Debian CTTE and not ftp-master. So ftp-master had no
right to take sides and just remove the package even if they have the
power to do so.
As far as I see it the situation is like this:
In short Steve fears that ia32-apt-get might impede the transition to
multiarch, which in the form users have installed NOW it does. That
fear is already a reality and removing ia32-apt-get has not and will
not undo the last 1 1/2 years of use of ia32-apt-get by many users.
On the other hand I have, based on the multiarch proposal from Steve,
detailed briefly [1] how ia32-apt-get will adapt to and actively use
multiarch features as they are being added to Debian. With those steps
ia32-apt-get users will transition smoothly to multiarch. And for
those users that stop using ia32-apt-get I proposed that the multiarch
capable dpkg will "Conflicts: ia32-abi", thereby causing the removal
of any ia32-* package left installed when multiarch comes. But that
requires that users did upgrade at least to version 22 of
ia32-apt-get. I believe not enough have had the chance before it was
removed. Specially note that this plan only requires one package, one
maintainer to do any work: dpkg has to add "Conflicts: ia32-abi" at
some point in the future. A not too difficult burden I believe.
I further pointed out the similarity to dpkg-cross, which has been in
Debian since 1997. The difference between ia32-libs-tools and
dpkg-cross are implementation details. They basically do the same and
if I wouldn't hate perl so much then I would have patched dpkg-cross
instead of writing ia32-libs-tools. So there is a 12 year precedence
for ia32-libs-tools like tools. There is a long history of doing what
ia32-libs-tools does, altering debs between download and installation,
even if for a slightly different goal.
So in conclusion I would ask the CTTE to suspend the ftp-master
removal and then mediate between Steve and me. I would ask you to
decide whether ia32-apt-get will be a problem for multiarch and wether
removing ia32-apt-get is the best course of action to clean up the
situation. Based on that ia32-apt-get either stays removed or I get
permission to upload it again.
The removal could also be temporarily reverted until Squeeze gets
frozen or released. By that time the multiarch proposal should be more
fleshed out and the situation should be clearer. The question could
then be revisited before ia32-libs-tools becomes part of a stable
release. If Steve really pulls it off to have multiarch functional in
squeeze then ia32-libs-tools might even be gone by itself making the
argument obsolete.
MfG
Goswin
[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=535645#48
Reply to: