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Re: Renewed appeal to the technical committee about the FransAndCo.Vs.Sven dispute

On Sat, Nov 25, 2006 at 04:12:43PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/11/msg00610.html:

> >   Welcome to the d-i team, this is the way that people who are not in the
> >   one true straigth line, or humble enough, or whatever, are dealt with.

> >   [...]

> This is indeed how i see it. It was very interesting to see how someone else
> than me felt he was handled in such a way by the d-i team also.

The poster in question had not been "handled" at all by the d-i team.  He
was not a translator for one of the languages that had been cut from the
release; he was not a member of the d-i team.  He was an outside observer
who somehow decided it was appropriate to rant that the installer team had
offended the principles of Free Software.

That you think this situation provides support for your claims just
demonstrates the extent to which your conflict with Frans colors your
perception of everything in the project.

> The difference between him and me though, is that i repeteadly tried to go
> forward, to better this situation, to discuss with him. And repeteadly, means
> like 10 times or so since spring, and each of those cases where fully rejected
> in the same way the above proposal was rejected.

No, the difference between you and him is that you spend a lot of time
*talking* about going forward, where "going forward" means trying to get
yourself commit rights to d-i svn again.  This is even your response when
Frans does take time to look at your patches and makes an effort to
understand them before committing them.

> Now, this list above from you clearly show that you are not objective or
> biased. If you where objective, you would not only attacked me, but also
> listed the numerous as-hominem attacks against me from frans,

Frans is not making false statements before this committee.  It is only
*your* exaggerated claims that I feel it necessary to refute.  If Frans was
posting to this mailing list insisting that he had never done anything that
you should take offense at, I could come up with a similar laundry list for
him.  But until someone *does* make that claim on this list, *that's not

The fundamental problem here is that you really seem to think that any
"unbiased" person will conclude that, because Frans hasn't been nice to you,
the decision to block you from d-i svn should be overturned because you have
a *right* to be able to commit to the repository.  You have been told
multiple times by multiple people that this is not the case, yet you give
every indication that you regard commit access as something you are entitled
to.  Until you can accept that commit access and upload access are *not*
entitlements, mediation will never bring resolution because you will see
personal insults where there are none -- such as interpreting someone taking
due care in reviewing patches before applying them as:

> listed how in this last email exchange where i called frans clueless, he,
> in order to discredit my technical skills, attacked my patches and made
> clueless comments which would fully break the -prep support. 

Perhaps, if you were a quiet contributor to d-i, people would question
whether Frans was fit to lead the d-i team after removing your commit
rights.  But you're not a quiet contributor; you abuse Frans, and you abuse
the time of your fellow developers by repeatedly demanding vindication, as
if your commit access is the single most important problem facing the
project.  I understand completely why someone would not want you as a team

On Sat, Nov 25, 2006 at 10:06:23PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> 	From dak@ftp-master.debian.org Sat Nov 25 20:59:18 2006
> 	From: Archive Administrator <ftpmaster@debian.org>
> 	To: Sven Luther <luther@debian.org>,
>         Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>
> 	Cc: Debian Installer <installer@ftp-master.debian.org>
> 	Subject: linux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6_1.24_powerpc.changes REJECTED
> 	Message-Id: <E1Go3Pf-0003kP-0l@ries.debian.org>
> 	Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:42:11 +0000

> 	reject as requested by debian-boot

> If this is not a technical issue, i don't know what is. I am no more allowed
> to upload packages ?

You know that you are not a member of the debian installer team.  This
implies that you are not allowed to do maintainer uploads of packages
maintained by the debian installer team, yet you uploaded this package with
a maintainer version number and without submitting a patch for it.  Asking
for a REJECT without talking to you was unnecessarily antagonistic on
Frans's part given that you are still listed as an uploader, but he was
still within his rights to ask for it and it was reasonable for the ftp
masters to honor his request.

And you manage to see in this act a great conspiracy to drive you crazy?
Then you really should be seeking psychiatric help, and you should be
talking to your psychiatrist about persecution complexes.

> I cannot continue like this, i simply cannot, and if some day i follow the
> steps of dato, well, i hope you all who chose to look the other side, or
> bash on me for bothering them, will then know the part of responsabilities
> you took in this.

Debian is not responsible for your mental health.  If participating in
Debian is detrimental to your health, *you* need to take responsibility for
stepping back from Debian in order to put your health first, instead of
telling everybody else how they need to change for the sake of poor Sven's
sanity.  If you really can't accept that you don't have a right to upload
these packages, then I do think it would be in your best interest to step
back from Debian instead of continuing to fight hopeless battles.

Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
vorlon@debian.org                                   http://www.debian.org/

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