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Re: Debian images on Microsoft Azure cloud

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 11:28:57PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 11/15/2015 06:50 PM, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 09:04:29PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >> On 11/12/2015 04:52 PM, kuLa wrote:
> >>> On 2015-11-12 15:58:03, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >>>> As per the discussions during debconf, to be called "official", the
> >>>> images have to be built:
> >>>> - directly from an unmodified stable
> >>>> - with reproducibility on any Debian computer (ie: no need for any
> >>>> external infrastructure access)
> >>>
> >>> I don't think we reached any consensus in relation to the last point but I'm
> >>> not going to argue about it right now.
> >>
> >> There's IMO no consensus to have, unless we change the root of Debian
> >> (ie: the DFSG, and the fact that we do free software, and can build it
> >> in Debian). The need for an external infrastructure would make the
> >> images non-free. SaaS on a proprietary platform is as non-free as one
> >> can get. I don't anyone would say otherwise, would you?
> > 
> > Personally, I disagree with the statement that "the need for external
> > infrastructure would make the images non-free".
> > 
> > If a cloud platform does not make it possible to *import* images from an
> > external source,
> AFAIK, they all do.
> If you can't upload a custom images, then it makes the cloud pretty much
> useless.

Regardless, I still think you should state the requirement in terms of
the result, not in terms of how it's built. The "import image" thing was
just an (arguably bad) example; but I can imagine other cases where
things "have" to be built on the cloud provider's infrastructure, in the
sense that for practical reasons it's the best way forward, but that it
isn't theoretically the only possible way of doing so.

In that light, I think a requirement that it be *possible* to build a
bit-for-bit identical image while outside the given cloud infrastructure
(even if for whatever practical reason we end up not doing so) makes
much more sense. 

It is easy to love a country that is famous for chocolate and beer

  -- Barack Obama, speaking in Brussels, Belgium, 2014-03-26

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