Re: Bugs in the latest Debian Sid installer
Am Sonntag 09 August 2009 15:05:53 schrieb Uwe Bugla:
> Am Sonntag 09 August 2009 13:42:37 schrieb Uwe Bugla:
> > Am Sonntag 09 August 2009 08:22:54 schrieb Christian Perrier:
> > > Quoting Uwe Bugla (uwe.bugla@gmx.de):
> > > > Hi everybody,
> >
> > Hello Christian,
> >
> > > > using the Debian testing installer from 4th August I stumbled over
> > > > the follwing bugs:
> > > >
> > > > 1. console-data is missing in the list of necessary dependencies when
> > > > you install the basic system:
> > > > The consequence is:
> > > > You are trapped if you owe a non-American keyboard with a qwertz
> > > > layout. That complicates the installation process enourmously instead
> > > > of simplifying it.
> > >
> > > We're in the middle of a transition to console-setup. console-data
> > > should not be needed anymore. Still, it's not expected that you end up
> > > with an unconfigured keymap layout. Does the installed system *have*
> > > console-setup installed?
> >
> > I did not find that out, so I guess the answer is "No"!
> >
> > > It should have picked up the settings you made, in D-I, for the keymap
> > > (in your case, I suspect you picked 'German') and, thus, you should
> > > have a working keyboard layout on the installed system.
> >
> > I have an unusable keyboard layout on the installed system,
> > unfortunately. After performing "apt-get install console-data" the
> > keyboard layout is usable, but without performing that step the usage is
> > a big pain!
> >
> > > In any case, "dpkg-reconfigure console-setup" on the installed system
> > > should help.
> >
> > Sounds good, but is only helpful if you know that console-setup has been
> > installed or not. How can I find that out?
> >
> > I will set up a couple of other workstations and I will keep on
> > trying.....
> >
> > > But, still, that has to be investigated as this is obviously a big
> > > regression. I'm not in position to do so, being half-dialup as of
> > > now. Hopefully, someone else will.
> > >
> > > In the meantime, it would be good to mention this in
> > > http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/ConsoleSetupSwitch
> > >
> > > (Again, I'm not in position to do that right now....will try to
> > > remember later when online)
> > >
> > > > 2. At the point where the keyboard is being adjusted to the UTF-8
> > > > locale the script of the non-graphical installer (expert installation
> > > > chosen in that specific case) hangs up the whole installation
> > > > process. Only the graphical expert installation oversteps that
> > > > installation step successively.
> > > >
> > > > 3. This is quite an old bug, and I really wonder why noone complained
> > > > mentioning this one:
> > > >
> > > > It is impossible to set up a server / router with this installer
> > > > containing more than one NIC, no matter if you chose graphical or
> > > > non-graphical installer:
> > > >
> > > > In my personal example eth0 is connected to a highspeed modem. That's
> > > > why I chose automatic DHCP configuration for the first NIC.
> > > > Eth1 is configured staticallly by my own choice, that means DHCP with
> > > > fixed addresses for the server and the workstations.
> > > >
> > > > The installer is incapable to handle more than one NIC, which is a
> > > > mess! For my personal usage that means that I am forced to completely
> > > > ignore the second NIC during the installation process. When
> > > > installation is complete I am forced to reconfigure the whole network
> > > > part of my server / router manually, i. e. using an ordinary editor.
> > > > This state is quite insufficient and thus unacceptable.
> > >
> > > This is by design, in order to keep the installer simple to use and
> > > not confusing to less experienced users. So, by design, the only
> > > configured interface is the one that's used for the installation of
> > > the machine.
> > >
> > > Users who want to configure more than one interface are indeed
> > > expected to be able to do it after the install, by the usual methods.
> > >
> > > We really don't want to have *any* owner of a modern laptop (that has
> > > two NICs) to be prompted for the setting of his|her two interfaces.
> >
> > I cannot share that point of view:
> > My position:
> >
> > Your point of view is fully OK for a standard install, no matter if
> > console- based or graphical, adressing rookies and beginners.
> >
> > My point of view should fit for experienced users using the expert
> > install, no matter if graphical or console based.
> > But simplification in any case, and thus disregarding the different
> > installer levels with their different sophistication is a point of view
> > or guide line that I cannot and will not share at all...
> >
> > > > An additional menu point to adjust /etc/apt/sources.list to one's own
> > > > personal needs would be very helpful as a part of such an installer.
> > >
> > > Here again, this is much out of scope of the installer. It is left to
> > > the post-install polishing of the installed machine, when the
> > > machine's admin is supposed to be skilled enough to know how to do
> > > this.
> >
> > I prefare to avoid the usage of editors. Thus it would make sense to add
> > an additional point in the installer menu asking the user whether he
> > wants to perform a Debian Sid installation or rather one based on the
> > testing branch for which the installer was written: squeeze in this case.
> >
> > Installers are here to simplify necessary tasks, NOT to complicate
> > them....
> >
> > It's quite humble to say "We don't want this and we don't want that" or
> > "We expect the user to be qualified enough to ......".
> >
> > I would not define myself as subqualified. But I would highly prefer an
> > installer which is a bit more elegant and less buggy and complicated than
> > the current one.
> > Apart from that I do like Debian and I do recommend its usage to everyone
> > that is really open for Linux and open source.
> >
> > Big regards
> >
> > Uwe
>
> Christian,
>
> here is an addition to my first answer:
>
> a. console-setup is NOT on board after the basic installation performed by
> the current Debian Sid installer, so there can't be any "dpkg-reconfigure
> console- setup" performed to readjust my keyboard in order to make it
> functionable.
>
> I need to install console-data, otherwise my keyboard layout is unusable -
> FACT!
>
> b. After the basic installation is finished you are asked whether you want
> UTC or local time. I always decide for local time, and thus I answer "NO".
>
> The consequence of that choice is another big pain caused by that rather
> crude installer:
> It corrects the BIOS clock by adding 2 hours. So if I want to avoid a wrong
> system time in order to receive a correct local time with "Berlin" as time
> zone I am forced to enter the BIOS at the first system start to readjust
> the inbuilt clock.
> The consequence of that is that at the next start fsck.ext3 will find a bad
> superblock in the root partition, thus being forced to repair the ext3 file
> system.
> So I need to restart the system for a third time after which it can repair
> the superblocks of the other partitions, give me a usable login prompt with
> an unusable keyboard layout, and thus (sigh!) enabling me to install mc (my
> favorite editor) and console-data (for keyboard adjustment).
>
> Quite harsh and utmost crude, that Debian Sid installer, isn't it?
>
> Regards
>
> Uwe
Yep,
and this is hopefully the last bug that I found in the current Debian Sid
installer (for a network testing install):
This installer does not seem to recognize serial mice.
I tested two serial mice on two different serial ports, and nothing happened.
Former Debian Sid installers did not have any problem with that!
Regards
Uwe
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