* Mike Hommey (mh@glandium.org) wrote: > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 03:48:32AM -0400, Eric Dorland <eric@kuroneko.ca> wrote: > > * Mike Hommey (mh@glandium.org) wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 03:25:08AM -0400, Eric Dorland wrote: > > > > * Joey Hess (joeyh@debian.org) wrote: > > > > > Eric Dorland wrote: > > > > > > Well I think Google generally does treat the Iceweasel user agent > > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > Not in the case of maps.google.com, where the sidebar cannot be hidden > > > > > in iceweasel, can in firefox. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid that documenting it in README.Debian won't help desktop users > > > > > > > who just find that this strange "iceweasel" browser we install by > > > > > > > default doesn't work on sites that firefox works on. > > > > > > > > > > > > Could we do it in a more prominent perhaps? > > > > > > > > > > FWIW, I got from the README.Debian to #354622, but I was unable to from > > > > > there figure out how to quickly and easily change the user agent. > > > > > > > > > > A more prominent thing might be a hyperlink directly to the relevant > > > > > about:config setting from the default start page .. or a pre-installed > > > > > user agent switcher that has firefox in it as an option. I think that > > > > > something like that would go a certian distance to making it accessible > > > > > to users, though it would still be a bother. > > > > > > > > I thought about this this week and I've come to agree with Joey's > > > > position. > > > > > > > > We could document exactly how to change the useragent for the user, > > > > but why wouldn't they do this? From there perspective there are all > > > > upsides and no downsides to making the useragent be Firefox, And if > > > > everyone is going to mechanically change it (or want to change it), > > > > then it's not really a good default. > > > > > > > > While I agree that websites shouldn't be abusing useragent strings the > > > > way they do, we can't win this fight on our own and in the mean time > > > > our users are getting broken results that are in our power to fix. > > > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > We have plenty other browsers that are not Firefox and don't try to > > > claim to be Firefox... > > > > In the case of Iceweasel it is in fact 99.9% Firefox, so claiming it's > > Firefox isn't much of a stretch. > > In the case of kazehakase, galeon and epiphany, rendering-wise, it is > also 99.9% Firefox. Do you suggest they replace their user-agent, too? Possibly. It should at least be an option to work around broken sites. > > As much as we would like it not to be so, even people who should know > > better are not handling non-Firefox useragent strings correctly. We > > can present the user with documentation on how to change the useragent > > string, but why wouldn't they change it? There's no downside from > > there perspective, sites just work better. If the user should always > > set this themselves, then it should be the default. > > The fact is users don't *always* have to set this, because far from all > websites require it. If so many users were impacted, we would be drowned > under piles of bug reports about this issue, yet, there is only a few of > them (only one, iirc). With concerning issues, we usually get much more, > especially when they are longstanding issues. Most sites do work. But the breakages are subtle and just reinforces the perception that Iceweasel is inferior to Firefox. I feel like I keep reiterating this but i think it's the central point. If we took J. Random Debian User and sat them down and explained you can have User-Agent Iceweasel or Firefox and explained the pros and cons to them which would the pick? From their perspective there is no downside to using "Firefox". So shouldn't we represent their interests in this? > Finally, for those sites that do bad user agent sniffing, there is a a > "Report Broken Site" item in the Help menu that users can use (though I > haven't verified if unbranding didn't break it). What does that do exactly? Send a report to mozilla? Will they actually put pressure on websites to fix this? -- Eric Dorland <eric@kuroneko.ca> ICQ: #61138586, Jabber: hooty@jabber.com
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