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Bug#484121: tasksel: let's sync on the GNOME task

Le lundi 02 juin 2008 à 14:10 -0400, Joey Hess a écrit :
> There's a fundamental difference between the gnome package and the
> gnome-desktop task. The former is the complere gnome desktop environment
> with all extras, as shipped by gnome, while the latter attempts to be
> the best gnome-based desktop that Debian can put together and ship on a

The complete GNOME desktop environment as shipped by GNOME (modulo
tomboy) is gnome-desktop-environment. In gnome we provide extras that
are chosen by Debian to make it the best desktop experience we can.
Which is obviously what you should also want with the gnome-desktop

> These two seem unlikely to be identical, as long as there exist packages
> like openoffice and firefox, that are developed outside of gnome, and
> that everyone expects to find on their desktop.

I disagree with that “everyone”, but this is another story. The default
installation should probably be gnome + OOo + X + iceweasel, in this

> > Packages installed by the gnome package, not by tasksel:
> >       * abiword: adding it would mean installing two word processors,
> >         since openoffice is already part of the installation. However
> >         abiword is much lighter and much more suitable for beginners
> Beginners expect to be able to open all the microsoft documents they get
> and have them work well, and have an uber-bloated word processor that
> looks similar to the MS tools, which is why everyone uses OOo. 

It does not prevent us from shipping a better integrated word processor,
while setting OOo as the default handler for .doc files (currently it is
not, but I can easily change that).

> Anyway, the gnome package does not pull in abiword AFAICS.

It does, through gnome-office.

Same goes for dia, gnumeric, inkscape, planner.

> >       * gdm-themes: nice to have for customizing one’s desktop, just
> >         like gnome-themes-extras.
> I'm not sure that "nice to have" is really worth bloating the default
> install (and installation media) by 4 mb. We ship a pre-themed gdm.
> (Dropping the 20 mb gnome-themes-extras would also be a sizable win to
> consider...)

Considering the size of the default installation, that’s definitely your

> >       * tomboy: very nice app, but controversial since it brings the
> >         full Mono stack, so we don’t make it part of
> >         gnome-desktop-environment.
> I doubt that the size of its dep chain (~50 mb) makes it worthwhile to
> add it to our task.

Yeah, that’s what I feared. I hope someone rewrites it in Vala some day…

> >       * totem-plugins: totem will lack functionality without it.
> totem-plugins is a dependency of totem, so it already installed by
> default.
> (g-d-e still depends on totem despite it being a "dummy package", and
> totem still depends on totem-plugins while totem-gstreamer does not..
> will this be cleaned up?)

Ah, indeed that’s stupid. ISTR that upstream told us totem-plugins
includes core functionality, so we should probably move it to g-d-e

> >       * gparted: not sure it is that useful, but we could add it to
> >         gnome.
> I'm on the fence about this one myself. Gustavo promoted adding it.

Actually, it sounds like something more useful for the installer itself
than for normal desktop operation.

> >       * update-notifier: not very well maintained, but definitely
> >         useful. Maybe as a recommend?
> It's pretty crucial to have this well-maintained IMHO. Many users will
> only find out about security fixes via this.

Unfortunately there are already much more crucial packages that are not

> >       * gdebi: we should definitely add it to gnome.
> Along similar lines, I've been considering adding aptlinex or something
> similar to the task. The UI is not a really great fit though. And apturl
> is not packaged..

I’m not sure it is that useful. We already have nice integrated UIs, I’m
not sure we need web crap just for the coolness of web 4.0.

> >       * transmission-gtk: I don’t know that application, but it sounds
> >         like a useful addition to gnome.
> It's the best integrated bittorrent application I've seen for gnome so
> far, and relatively popular.

OK, will add it.

> >       * liferea: definitely a good addition to gnome.
> >       * pidgin: we should add this one, or maybe rather telepathy, to
> >         gnome.
> My impression is that pidgin has the mind share at the moment. I've
> never seen a clear explaination/example of telepaty's capabilities. Is
> it ready?

There is controversy as to whether integrate it to GNOME mainstream, but
it is not about the capabilities. I’m no IM user myself, so I can’t tell
whether it is good enough.

> >       * evolution-plugins: sounds like something we forgot to add on our
> >         side.
> Possibly. Gustavo recommended adding that to the task.

It is already here through recommends, but we need to make it more

> >       * tsclient: we now install vinagre which is part of the GNOME
> >         release, which is nicer but lacks RDP support. I don’t know
> >         what’s best for this one.
> (You're the one who recommended putting tsclient in the task before.)

Sure, but that was before vinagre was integrated :)

> vinagre is being pulled in via g-d-e already..
> I think we could live without RDP support. Or we could leave both
> installed; tsclient's menu entry says "Terminal Services Client", which
> is just what people looking to connect to a windows machine will look
> for, and everyone else can use vinagre.

Yes, it’s not as if tsclient was that big.

> >       * network-manager-gnome: I think we should at least recommend this
> >         one.
> There's no right choice about this peice of software..
> >       * bluez-gnome: same as NM.
> If we had a gnome-laptop task, we'd put this there, rather than
> gnome-desktop.

Bluetooth is just as suitable for desktops, especially this obex applet.
The one that’s for laptops is NM, actually.

> >       * xsane: probably something that should be added to gnome-office.
> There's no better scanner program for gnome is there?

There’s gnome-scan but it is still under development, and it is not yet
packaged into Debian. 

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