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Bug#479431: Should D-I upgrade packages during pkgsel?

On Monday 5 May 2008 14:57, Frans Pop wrote:
> > * after the install I had a number of packages already there to upgrade,
> >   including a new kernel from security. Especially the latter is a bit
> >   cumbersome, requiring another reboot before the system is ready to
> >   use. Can't the installer already at some point install the most up
> >   to date kernel from the archives, before the first reboot?
> Not sure if this is really something the installer should do. It's somewhat
> inherent in choosing a CD that contains packages IMO.

I do not see it that way, for two reasons:

* I wouln't have chosen a netinst image if I was not willing to download most 
stuff over the Internet; and even if I didn't use a netinst, the adding of a 
mirror and security repositoriy to my sources.list also indicates that the 
very next update I'm going to do is going to install those packages anyway, 
so what do we gain with postponing that?

* I don't think there's a conflict between choosing a CD with packages and 
downloading updates. I would choose a CD in the knowledge that the vast 
majority of packages on it can be used directly, so that I would have to 
download just those few packages that are newer.

> One issue might be that we could not limit it to security updates if the
> user has also selected a mirror. An upgrade would include any package that
> has a new version available. OTOH, if he did select a mirror, he probably
> wants updates anyway.

Yes, indeed. I think the installer behaving this way is important for again 
two reasons:

* From a security/stability standpoint: the packages that are to be upgraded 
are expected to have changes you really want to have: security updates and 
stable point updates. It makes sense to me to try and make the system as 
secure and as stable as possible before we boot into it.

Everyone knows the Windows race condition where your system is infected before 
you even have a chance to go to windowsupdate, and updates are only 
downloaded after the system is running. Of course we're no where near such a 
disaster, but if we have the opportunity to install critical updates before 
we even start, we're proactively securing the system from the first second it 
runs. That's a good feature to have.

* From a usability standpoint: I just booted into my new system, find out that 
I have to upgrade the kernel, and then reboot it again, meaning I need two 
reboots before I can properly start to use the system. If there is an 
opportunity to make that just one, I believe it should be taken.

> If we do want to do this, I guess it would have to be a separate step in
> pkgsel, preferably _before_ running tasksel. Maybe we should somehow check
> if there are updates available and then run an
>     in-target aptitude --without-recommends safe-upgrade
> possibly after prompting the user whether he wants to do the upgrade or
> not.

I'm unaware of D-I's internals, but from the viewpoint of a Debian user I'd 
say: why upgade? Can't apt figure out the first time when it installs those 
packages which need to come from cd and which from a mirror?

Thanks for considering this.


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