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----- Forwarded message from Debian Wiki <debian-www@lists.debian.org> -----
From: Debian Wiki <debian-www@lists.debian.org>
To: Debian Wiki <debian-www@lists.debian.org>
Subject: [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianInstaller/FransPopAndOthersVs.SvenLutherIssue" by SvenLuther
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 15:15:59 -0000
Dear Wiki user,
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The following page has been changed by SvenLuther:
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/FransPopAndOthersVs%2eSvenLutherIssue
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## page was renamed from DebianInstaller/FransPopvsSvenLutherIssue
## page was renamed from DebianInstaller/SvenLutherIssue
The Frans Pop and others vs Sven Luther issue is a conflict between a part of the d-i team comprised of Frans Pop and a few (2?) other persons who chose to remain anonymous, and Sven Luther, which led to the revocation of Sven Luther's commit right to the d-i repository.
+
+ = Cease-fire proposal =
+
+ Sven Luther is proposing a face-to-face meeting between him, Frans and others involved in this issue, as well as outsiders who are interested in helping get this resolved smoothly, during FOSDEM, which will be held around 3 months from now, and that both parties stop the hostilities until then.
+
+ Update :
+
+ At FOSDEM, Frans Pop walked past me, turning his head the other way, and refused to return my greeting. He didn't come to the discussion speach i held during the debian day, which was supposed to be an place to discuss in real life the future of the kernel in debian, and later, Holger, who apparently knew about things he should not, told me debian would be better off without me. This was shortly after i joined a discussion between Holger and James Troup, on sunday 25, because i wanted Holger's opinion on my speech, and if i had managed to be as neutral as possible, with regard to the dispute with the d-i folk, which i believe i had, only mentioning that it was sad they didn't chose to come to my presentation despite me inviting them. Both of them knew about the expulsion procedure against me, since they tried to mail me on the 24th, and it is clear from the events that surfaced later on, that the procedure was started again after i presented myself as DPL candidate, and Frans at least was a very active person in recruiting supporters for the procedure.
= Information =
@@ -20, +28 @@
Sven Luther added a page where [:DebianInstaller/FransPopAndOthersVs.SvenLutherIssue/SvenLutherThinking: he reflects on how this issue seems unsolvable].
- Sven Luther wrote about [:DebianInstaller/FransPopAndOthersVs.SvenLutherIssue/SvenLuther/FOSDEM2007:events of FOSDEM 2007 related to this issue].
+ = Note to all participants =
- = Cease-fire proposal =
+ Steve Kemp, and someone called AntiDrama, have tried to censor these pages. A message to both of you, and other would-be censors. This page will go away once the issue is solved, so why not concentrate your energy on helping get it fixed instead ? A special note to Steve Kemp : you said in your [:http://blog.steve.org.uk/index.php/archives/2006/11/05/soon-turned-out-had-a-heart-of-glass/: blog] that you where sympathetic to my cause, but, like with many others in the same situation as you, this never translated with trying to speak with Frans and others, or at least there was not a single public hint about this.
- Sven Luther proposed a face-to-face meeting between him, Frans Pop and others involved in this issue, as well as outsiders who are interested in helping get this resolved smoothly, during FOSDEM 2007, which is over, and that both parties stop the hostilities until then.
- = Note to all participants =
+ ----
+ I'd not call my actions "censorship". I was merely removing inappropriate content from a project-wide resource.
+
+ If you believe you have the right to conduct personal arguments here in addition to your never-ending mailing list spam I see no reason why I can't believe I have the right to remove them.
+
+ As for who I've spoken to, and how publically I've done so that is irrelevant to this abuse of this site. I've previously mailed you and suggested you cease your repeated mailings (Jun 17th 2006). I then killfiled you on Oct 15th, again telling you. I will no longer respond to your ramblings, but I am increasingly tempted to start deleting pages again.
+
+ -- SteveKemp
+ ----
+
+ Steve,
+
+ I added the original page, because i was adviced to do so by people on #debian-devel and elsewhere (by many people), in order to try to solve this issue, since, as you said, using the mailing lists was not nice to readers, and i was told to go to a way that people can pull information if they wanted, instead of pushing it to them.
+
+ I created a single, positive and constructive page, to which geert replied with hateful stuff, and filipus decided to move in the current format, and then others participated.
+
+ You can hardly blame me for this, nor can you blame me for trying to find a solution to this childish conflict, which now is lasting more than 6 months. It is not as if i didn't try to solve it previously, and not as if i asked the DPL to mediate, but the fact is, we are not in november, and facing the exact same mess.
+
+ -- SvenLuther
+ ----
+
+
+ Sven,
+
+ Invisible and anonymous people told me to delete these pages. See how easily that works?
+
+ -- Steve Kemp
+
+ ----
+
+ Well, ask someone who has a log of last week #debian-devel, and have a look for yourself. I sadly don't keep logs, but i know plenty of people do.
+
+ -- SvenLuther
+
+ ----
Sven Luther started with a single page, and then Geert Stappers replied, and on that FilipusKlutiero decided to move this all to a more streamlined process, in order to make reading easier, and to avoid having people munge other folk page.
* Note: If the previous paragraph is not erroneous, it is IMO unlikely that readers understand what it is supposed to mean with this formulation. -- FilipusKlutiero
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