Re: Developer wants to destroy
On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 11:00:01PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote:
> Op 26-11-2006 om 21:11 schreef Sven Luther:
> > On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 04:41:38PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote:
> > >
> > > Op 26-11-2006 om 15:44 schreef Sven Luther:
> > > > ... it can only end with me being totally destroyed.
> > >
> > > Fine, just continue with what you are doing.
> >
> > And you would have played a strong role in this. But Fabio proposed to act as
> > mediator, and both me and Frans (on behalf of the un-named other guys i
> > guess), as well as the DPL agreed to it, so let's see what it brings.
> >
> > But if you are really honest with yourself, you will be able to see your own
> > part in what happened in this. I know my part, and i made ammend, and i tried
> > to engage conciling discussion, but to absolutely no avail.
> >
> > Maybe if someone else than me points you to your negative participation in
> > this, you will be able to aknowledge it, as well as the positive participation
> > i know you also had, and we will be able to move forward in this discussion.
> >
> > Friendly,
> >
> > Sven Luther
>
>
> I'm still in doubt what is a better aproach, fjp or joeyh.
> fjp: I never ignored you on mailinglists
> joeyh: I'm ignoring him for various reasons since october 2005
The problem is that frans is only partially truthful about this. He indeed
didn't ignore me on the mailing list about technical issue, altough he
sometimes (and at moments quite often) resorted to agressive bashing, for the
most superficial of reasons.
Now, the real problem is not about the technical issue, but about the abysmal
social problem, and i almost never got any reply from my conciliation
proposals on the mailing list, and on irc, it always ended in the "FUCK YOU"
variety.
> The mediation is about a personal problem "Frans versus Sven".
Well, given that the others chose not to name themselves, it clearly seems a
"Frans vs Sven" issue. But what you are missing here is that it is not a "Frans
vs Sven" issue or a "Frans and some others vs Sven" issue, but instead it is
trying to find a solution to a broken social situation, so that all parties
win, and everyone is happy about the outcome.
This is what i most fervently wish for, and which i hope a real mediation
attempt will bring.
I have some doubt the other side of this conflict sees it such, and make it
into a to-the-death kind of fight, where they will either lose face, or i will
be fully destroyed. This is clearly the impression i get, i may be wrong, and
some people tell me i am wrong, but i never got even a hint of the what the
other side feelings and position is that would contradict this impression.
Frans and the DPL, and others like Raphael Hertzog, clearly stated that a
pre-alable of it ever being solved is for me to recognize publicly that all is
my fault. I am a honest person, i don't see it such, and despite what you,
frans, joeyh, aj, and others want to believe, the fault is shared, and trying
to end it by having one side recognize all fault is his, is what i mean when i
say that they are out to "destroy" me. You also participated in this.
The good way out of this, and the one i started doing in the wiki page, and
which you ridiculized in your reply to it, is to not mention past faults,
which most probably where not meant, but came out because of anger and
suffering, and instead forget about them, analyze the current situation, and
then go forward from there, and modify the situation from one where we get a
new escalating clash each other week, to one where the situation can smooth
itself over time.
> The outcome is only relevant for those two.
Yeah, right, so, now i am confused, you are saying that it is a personal feud
between frans and me, or the contrary ?
> I wonder how Sven will bend the personal conflict in a debian-installer
> conflict. Because there is also a lot of damage to repair.
And you caused a rather important part of that damage.
> Anyway: enough food for the energybeast[1] today.
You know that this kind of comments is insulting in its own right ? You know
how you are de-humanizing me by this, and making me not a man of flesh and
blood, with feeling and sentiments, but a thing to be figthed ?
Seriously Geert, i am seriously disapointed in you, remember how we meet for
the first time in oldenbourg in 98, and then again in linuxtag a couple of
years ago, how we spoke together then, and worked together on conglomerate ?
Am i really a thing to be fighted ? and energybeast ? Do you think this kind
of behaviour can in any way help solve this issue ?
Friendly,
Sven Luther
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