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Re: Bug#378404: installation guide: one more additional proposal

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On Fri, Jul 21, 2006 at 06:23:19PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Friday 21 July 2006 14:57, Geert Stappers wrote:
> > What I don't get is the long term policy. I only have questions about
> > it.
> >
> > * Would a "state flag" help to indicate a status like a freeze?
> > So that when a 'update translations' message is skipped/missed/whatever
> > there is still the state flag. Perhaps also include that flag in
> > /topic?
> Do you honestly mean you would really have looked for a "state flag"? Such 
> things only work if everybody knows where to look for them and I doubt 
> there is one location that would work for that.

Important is to realize that a project has sideline contributors.
Slapping them with a URL like http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/07/msg00405.html
implies a demand that _all_ mailinglist message should be read by them.

Cluebatting a sideline contributor with a URL
like http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/#State will stick better.

> /topic IMO abused enough already and will only get too long and unreadable 
> when stuff like this is added.


> It's much better that _you_ take the responsibility to know what you are 
> doing before doing it instead of just going ahead because it looks easy.

That changed the tone from "Only full-time hardcore contributors needed"
into "sideline contributors should find their way in the project"

Probably was / is the whole E-mail about "Do it better".
That I did read "last warning", "my gun is aimed at you",
"no understanding for mistakes", "you have failed before"
is my problem, my point of view.

> > * How much "revert work" was/is needed after a "considered harmless"
> > "Hey, this patch shouldn't be ignored action"? Telling all the things
> > that need to be done for a cleanup, shows how much harm actually was
> > done.
> Because it is fairly complex and requires a real understanding of the 
> build system, the way translators work and revision versioning. The only 
> way to learn about that is to really get involved yourself, not by me 
> providing simplistic recipes.

A question like "How much revert work?" could be answered with:

| * find out the previous version of the file
| * get time stamp information from that version.
| * revert the change
| * apply time stamp information on it
| * inject the "original version" into the repository
| * notify all the translators about a to be expected hickup
| All of this revert work could have been avoided with:
|  Why is this easy patch ignored for 36 hours?

> > * What about a "Hey, you created this mess, follow the procedure at URL
> > to clean it up" approach? Or "Your action harmed this list of people,
> > say sorry to them"?
> > Or another thing that has much learning in itself.
> The problem as I see it is that your involvement with d-i is only on the 
> sidelines. You are not involved or committed enough to anything so that 
> you know the status _because_ you are involved. Instead you pick things 
> that "look" easy and do them without considering the consequences.

That misses "Or another thing that has much learning in itself."

If the lesson was "Do nothing breaks nothing",
then it was a sad lesson.

Geert Stappers
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)


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