On Thu, Jun 15, 2006 at 09:22:18PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > Gaining back the confidence would have been a very long process and > A very long process ? This is clearly the ridiculous part. And what is frans > going to do to regain my confidence ? Your comments throughout this painful (for everybody concerned) process have made it clear that you regard your relationship with Frans to be a symmetric one. But it's just as clear to me that this is not the case: it's true that you are both Debian Developers, so in a general sense you are equals, but *as concerns access to the debian-installer repository*, he is a recognized admin of the d-i group on alioth and the recognized release manager of d-i for etch, which means deciding who does or doesn't get access to the d-i repo is within his area of normal authority -- not yours. You seem to think this is unimportant. I do not; I think this is the basic reason why the DPL has suggested the solution that he has and why the TC has refused to overrule any of these decisions, because we don't have to agree that Frans's decision was right, we only have to agree that it was a *reasonable* decision for him to make. Yes, it is reasonable for a project admin to remove the commit access of someone he feels he can't work with, even if that someone is a long-time committer. If you can't accept this basic fact that giving and taking commit access to the repository is the decision of the project admins to make, *in their own time*, and focus instead on the work that can be done, then sure, I don't expect you to regain any trust in Frans; and I don't expect relations to improve much or for you to get commit access restored any time in the foreseeable future. > > that commit access which you seem to put a huge importance on would > > certainly have come back.....certainly late (I would say after Etch > > release). > Why ? It is a hindrance in me doing d-i work, and serves no other purpose than > to humiliate me, so i am thaught not to misbehave in the future. I don't think the latest comment Frans made to you on IRC was appropriate, but I do think it's true. Your reinstatement to the team does depend on the project admins feeling that they can work with you. You may have meant your comments as a joke, but it doesn't surprise me that such a joke is not well received. This thread isn't a joke, nor are any of the others we've had about this matter. They're also pretty clear indicators that, rather than following AJ's advice on how to move forward, you're seeking to undermine -- or override -- Frans's authority. If no one has come to your rescue by now, what do you think *this* thread will accomplish for you? All I see it doing is further demonstrating that you are not willing to work within the team structure that exists. > > The trust between you and Frans has been lost. And Frans is the team > > boss (by general agreement of the D-I team). In real life, when the > > trust is broken between a manager and his employees, a usual > > recommendation to both parties is to stick with factual work and do > > the best possible to avoid putting back personal relationship > > problems. > But in real life, if he had acted such as my boss in these conditions, i > would have sued him for moral harcelement, and he would have lost. I guess > even in the US this would have passed I have no idea what you're trying to say with "moral harcelement", but no, you're very sadly mistaken. > > Up to now, we have tried hard with the first solution which, honestly, > > could work if you don't bring back your old griefs all time long. > No, and i will tell you why. There is a social conflict, and the current > situation is such that all the blame for it is on me, and Frans is the > innocent party who suffered and should be avenged by punishing me. AFAICT, Frans's fault in this matter is that you make him angry. How do you expect any of us to judge him for this when so many of us have the same flaw? -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. vorlon@debian.org http://www.debian.org/
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