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Re: The powerpc port should be removed from etch release candidates ...

Sven Luther wrote on 01/05/2006 08:21:
> On Mon, May 01, 2006 at 02:20:09AM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
>>The reason that I did not inform you was because things were already very 
>>heated at the moment and because you were at that time still very 
>>concerned about the welfare of your mother. I thought it was better not 
>>to add to that.
> And what have you gained ? What did you expect would happen once i noticed ?

He thought he would gain not adding more pressure to you. He was wrong
and he apologized for that. Stop picking on him, please.

> Apologizes accepted, but this is not enough.

Either you accept the apology or you don't. There is no "but".

> So, this is a first step, but i need more. I need :
>   - the commit access being restored.

I would second that request, if it was more humble. You don't "need"
commit access restored, you just want it. So please be so kind to
actually state the true thing.

>   - an apology for the lack of decency this action shows.

You already got that. The apology might have been weaker than you hoped,
but nevertheless, you accepted it (you said: "Apologizes accepted").

>   - apologies for continual bashing would be nice, but more important you
>     refraining from doing so in the future. When i post, avoid saying things
>     like 'its the kernels fault' or otherwise indirectly pointing the finger
>     back to me. 

Stop being too sensitive. If someone says "its the kernels fault", why
do you think they are pointing at you? Did you write the whole kernel?
And it would also be nice if _you_ stopped pointing at various people
(and Frans in particular).

> On my side, i will follow my one-post-per-thread policy, which i have mostly
> been doing since the last two month, with only two backslides, and those two
> backslides where always triggered by you being bashful, so i have good faith
> that if you change a bit your behaviour, and my personal distress situation
> calmiong down, that this will no more be a problem in the future.

If you actually both stop letting of your frustration/anger on one
another, but instead talked to each other like most educated people
would do, there soon wouldn't be much anger left between the two of you.

@d-i people: When Sven annoys you, try ignoring whatever he does at that
moment (i.e. that mail, that IRC message, that commit-log). Calm down
and come back later if there is a technical issue involved that needs
solving. Sven is over-sensitive and attacks when he deems he is being
attacked himself. Nevertheless, he did a lot of valuable work on the
powerpc port and is willing to continue doing so. While making Colin the
 lead powerpc porter (at least regarding the d-i team) does make sense,
but that doesn't necessarily mean that Sven's contributions aren't
needed anymore.

@Sven: As a result of this thread, I read a lot of mails in various
threads you were involved in. While I somewhat agree that people where
picking on you, it has never been as bad as you try to make it look
like. You are _way_ over-sensitive and see every hint at a technical
problem as a personal attack (see the "it's the kernel's fault" comment
above). People are pointing out that some particular program (or other
part of the system) is accountable for a particular problem is _not_ a
personal attack on you.

> But you have to live by the fact that i also have an opinion, and that i will
> post things in the future which may annoy you, and it is not correct to expect
> me not to do such posts.

If you knowingly post things in a way that annoys others, you pretty
much make sure to gather opponents rather than friends. Your posts
mostly sound far more aggressive than they would need to. Try to focus
on technical things, try to avoid personal issues.

> So, the ball is in your camp, can you now stop this childish rejection of me,
> come to your sense,

As much as one _might_ see the removal of commit rights as a childish
action, your reaction to it isn't any less childish.

> and that we continue working again ? I may have hit your
> feelings, and said things that you took badly, and for this i apologize, but
> you (and others) have done no less. 

Wise words. If both of you (i.e. primarily Frans and Sven, but also the
other people involved, such as the rest of the d-i team) calm down and
try to focus on fixing technical things while avoiding personal stuff,
you might be able to work together again in the near future. I sure hope
so, since that would mean that d-i and especially the PowerPC port would
improve more than it would without you cooperating.


PS: Sven: Frans was right in one aspect: You should have _tried_ to
contact Colin before fixing whatever breakage you wanted to fix with
your commit, since now Colin is the lead PowerPC porter (for d-i). At
least you should have send a mail along the lines of: "I noticed this
issue, I'm working on a fix."
PPS: I intentionally CCed this mail to Sven in the hopes of making sure
he is aware of this mail. I apologize if this is unwanted. I removed
debian-powerpc and debian-release from the CC though. I think two lists
are more than enough.

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