Re: Gtk fe complete X testcase
Attilio Fiandrotti wrote:
Eddy Petrisor wrote:
I suppose this is i386 binary code, or is it not?
Can't run it here (ppc arch) if is i386 code.
Yes, it's a i386 version; Giuseppe Sacco offered himself to develop a
ppc one
You already have a tester.
PS: I have some notes on what are the current problems of the GTK
frontend and why it has stalled. Do yo want them?
for sure, tell me!
They are not quite coherent and are, in fact, some irc logs;
I also have some notes in my head ;-) just waiting to be rediscovered.
--
Regards,
EddyP
===========================
I had a favourite quote, but I forgot it. And it was insightful.
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eddyp hello al
wonders with what should I start the work on developing a graphical installer
bubulle eddyp: look at the dead project on alioth....but don't dream-->a graphical installer won't probably make it for sarge
eddyp i know
bubulle which does not mean you shouldn't work on it of course..:-)
eddyp maybe for the 3.11 release ;)
bubulle maybe start some discussion on -boot but we're mostly focused on chasing bugs currently
eddyp I would also like to know what would be the start point on documenting regarding di as is now
bubulle eddyp: you mean the d-i manual?
eddyp nope, the underlying mechanisms is my target
bubulle ah, well...No idea if something has been done yet
CIA-2 debian-installer: joeyh * r17732 installer/ (4 files in 2 dirs): - Use the 2.4.46 kernel for speakup.
debianist would be thrilled to join people on a pure community made graphical installer
moreover, would like to see all those grimmed people with the "Why can't it have a decent graphical installer like RH has?" remain speechless.. ;)
eddyp debianist is wolcome
s/wolcome/welcome
debianist eddyp : just take a look at the dead project on alioth ?
eddyp as I heard the gui should be based on cdebconf . is the dead project doing this?
debianist Well, I'll check that for a sec.
actually, I can't seem to remeber it's path on alioth, has anyone got it?
joeyh tries jigdo with a local mirror
eddyp i have a link
http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/gtk-frontend
ths eddyp: IIRC it did, which means it asks for input of a single item thousands of times.
eddyp ths: "it asks for input of a single item thousands of times. " meaning? (where to find answers?)
who can give'em to me?
ths eddyp: Normally, GUI programs have dialogs with several inputs. cdebconf (currently) does only one at a time.
eddyp: This allows it to work well in text etc. mode.
eddyp debianist: is that what you were asking, or were you asking for a svn uri?
ths: input = mice, keyboards / stream
ths eddyp: Input _fields_, basically.
eddyp ths: so the problem is that cdebconf can deal only with one active input filed, while gui can work with many. is that correct?
debianist eddyp : svn would be great
eddyp is looknig for svn uri too
debianist eddyp : googeling?
ths eddyp: Yes. A good GUI usually should work with many.
debianist ths : I bet it enables it to stay closely related to the text dialogs course..
eddyp ths: basically there's only one operation at a time when installing... so...
debianist I agree
Is there a mailing list also?
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eddyp ths: when clicking ok, all the input fileds can be feeded to cdebconf sequencely
debianist ths : that what I had in mind.. This was we can have for instance a navigation bar on left side, switching a relavent window when choosing respective configuration category
s/was/way
eddyp so, even if there are many on a dialog, to cdebconf they are fed one by one
debianist: and the unavalable/old options are greyed out
debianist eddyp : yep. simple as that.
eddyp : we should also have some sort of presets (maybe similar to progeny's flavor, but am not sure this is the way to go about it) something similar to task,
eddyp thinks a help/tip/status area should be present
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eddyp debianist: didn't try progeny's flavor
debianist eddyp : tasks, but on a more userish oreinted level like "desktop" "server" and "laptop" config presets
eddyp debianist: I think that is present in di ATM
debianist eddyp : about the tip line, I thought of even maybe extending it with some sort of "online" help, that is whenever the config section it something which might be assisted with more knowledge of the users, to have elaborate explantory material accessible by a click and even maybe some inbuilt broswer to help the user on a internet connected station to find more info regarding the subject, or more importantly *updated" info from the
resepctabke wiki page etc
like in for example when installing onto a SATA controller, let the user view current updated hardware support info from the wiki or something
ofcourse that might somewhat increase the size of the installer..maybe use wget for getting the page and reformat it for the installer window
eddyp : di ATM ?
eddyp debianist: wget is already in, so it would be an alternative, but we must strip off the formatting
atm = at this/the moment
so the left side navigator should be a radio-buttoned area, or a tabbed one?
I think buttons are better
debianist eddyp : regarding atm, ok, but I think that applies only for software selection, not for configuration presets..But I would be glad to be proven wrong on this
eddyp : you mean strip out all the HTML trash?
eddyp -boot: anyone care to contradict debianist on the tasks selections?
yeap
and display only the useful info
text in a edit-box
debianist eddyp : yep, something similar to the wiki's edit text box maybe
waldi fjp: which problems?
debianist eddyp : left bar : tabbed one
eddyp waldi: are there any desktop, server, and so on tasks (iirc yes)
fjp waldi: no ide udebs loaded on i386 netboot 2.6 installation
waldi log?
fjp waldi: I'll have to reproduce.
debianist eddyp : what I have in mind for the conf presets is something more of maybe when on a laptop, set the X parameters accordingly etc etc, if on a server machine, offer a suitable partiotioning scheme..as a matter of fact, this might be impractical in light of the many possibilites.
eddyp debianist: and the meny arches
although not all , maybe, will be supported
just a few
debianist eddyp : I remeber when installing on a dell 8200 inspiron , fighting XF86Config-4 file until I managed to scale it's display area
eddyp : while in redhat there were no problem
eddyp : Keeping in mind how crappy red hat is compared to debian, it kind'a saddened me..
eddyp debianist: so the preset options would refer to configs, not packages
debianist eddyp : yes exactly.
notes he may be ahead of his skills with his ideas, but hopes that in collebrative work it's achiveable. ;)
eddyp debianist: this is discover related and solved by the current installer
debianist eddyp : hmm, ok, taking a note to try d-i on the inspiron
;)
eddyp debianist: everybody is a beginner in some filed, then we evolve
debianist: I have sarge installed with beta4 di and had NO fuss with configs, I didn't even touched XF86Config-4
debianist eddyp : actually I'm pretty excited to even discuss this matters with you, notwithstanding.
eddyp : on a 8200 inspiron?
eddyp debianist: are in?
debianist: are you in?
debianist eddyp : in what?
eddyp for the devel of the FE
debianist eddyp : yes I am!
eddyp gui to be more precise
we should set up a meeting
debianist eddyp : you mean, a virtual one I guess
eddyp until we think of more ideas and ...
huh? virtual?
aaaa
yeap
debianist eddyp : I mean an IRC meeting or something right?
eddyp irc
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eddyp debianist: we should collect more info on cdebconf and how it works
debianist eddyp : are there any code snippets or any docs you'd like me having read about the subject?
eddyp anything you can find and send me links too...
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debianist eddyp : ok, same goes for you as I sense you are much lesser newbi than I am ;-)
eddyp eddy_petrisor@yahoo.com
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eddyp debianist: let's look for docs now
debianist eddyp : you are the project lead on that || know him || was involved in the "dead" project?
ok
eddyp none
:(
debianist no docs?
what about the current FE page?
eddyp " Michael Cardenas started on this, it is available in the debian-installer subversion repository."
wonders were can I find this in svn
fjp waldi: there?
debianist what the docs?
waldi fjp: someetimes
eddyp http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/gtk-frontend
debianist the docs are available under svn?
fjp waldi: Log shows "Missing module" for ide-* modules
eddyp debianist: join #flood
debianist sure
fjp No errors I can see during download from mirror
eddyp wonders where in svn can I find the gtk fe of di
Marvin-- eddyp: packages/cdebconf/src/modules/frontend/gtk
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eddyp debianist: although is not so easy, I think radio are better (me and somebody else who wants in too)
debianist eddyp : radio buttons for each config/inst category?
eddyp debianist: for each step
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debianist eddyp : you mean to choose options ?
eddyp for the configs, yes tabs, but at one specific step
debianist: yeap
debianist eddyp : so you'd like radio button or tabs? ;)
eddyp combined
steps with radio and tabs for setting within the current step
debianist eddyp : ok. tabs for the config section, radio for the options themselves.
eddyp debianist: we will settle this at the meeting
debianist eddyp : sorry, you mean vice versa. ok. I will use radio buttin to select WHICH step I am in, and tabs for diferent categories
eddyp : no, I agree on that.
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eddyp debianist: yeap. and look now where Marvin-- said
debianist eddyp : yes svn to that?
eddyp yes
debianist eddyp : ok no prob.
eddyp is a path in the di repo
Marvin-- all this debating about what the GUI should look like is all nice and good, but you should start by figuring out how to solve the problems that made us put the frontend on ice in the first place ;)
debianist Marvin-- : Have you documented those somewhere ?
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debianist Marvin-- : moreover, it was you that said in won't be finished for Sarge, and well, without too much inverstigation I agreed with you silently..;)
*investigation
Marvin-- basically, the problem is how to make it not suck
CIA-2 debian-installer: cjwatson * r17733 packages/kernel/linux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
debian-installer: Remove pmac_zilog from serial-modules, now built into the kernel.
debian-installer: Add fb-modules package, containing just matroxfb and rivafb for now.
debian-installer: Add mv64340_eth to nic-modules.
Marvin-- how will it integrate with the rest of d-i's infrastructure?
debianist Marvin-- : Well, I see much design work is ahead
Marvin-- : would you care to pinpoint some highlights that you stumbled in?
Marvin-- it's been so long ago, Wile_E could fill you in better, but I haven't seen him around for a while
debianist Marvin-- : I see. It's not corrolary to d-i's design?
Kamion (remind me who Wile_E is?)
Marvin-- Sebastian Ley
Kamion ah, yes
cdebconf doesn't really support BEGINBLOCK and ENDBLOCK in any sensible way
which seems like it'd be a requirement
Marvin-- well, that's just an implementation issue
a much bigger issue is that debconf in general isn't designed for asking many questions at the same time
Kamion um
surely INPUT; INPUT; INPUT; INPUT; GO?
Marvin-- it's clearly linear (or using state automata) instead of callbacks
Kamion go() is a method of the frontend, which can decide to ask all the pending questions at once
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IMTheNachoManSAD hello anyone in here in #debian, for some reason im banned from the channel and dont know why and was hoping someone could msg an op in the channel to find out why for me please
debianist Kamion : Marvin-- : wouldn't it be possible to create a config snapshot based on the FE, than feed it lineraly to debconf or something close?
Marvin-- no, you see, the problem is that the questions depend on the answers to earlier questions
Kamion debianist: uh, wouldn't that require very different client code?
Marvin-- in a GUI you typically use on-modification callbacks to update widgets for other questions when the answer to a dependency changes
but debconf has no concept of a callback at all
Kamion ah, yes
there are good GUIs without that though
debianist :( that would require to write a config simulation agent
taking in consideration referring dependencies
Marvin-- just look at how configlets work, a configlet is completely self-sufficient, and it has to be, in order for its GUI not to suck
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debianist maybe there's a way of interacting with cdebconf dummy "applying" changes, and report back ?
Marvin-- I mean, compare the X configlet to dexconf, they don't share any code whatsoever
perhaps. there's still the issue of figuring out how the backend udebs will work
Kamion: got any nifty examples?
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Marvin-- a GUI frontend to cdebconf that would require duplicating all the backends is not a proper solution
and I'm leaning towards the position that a "proper solution" involves redesigning debconf from the ground up
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debianist what's dexconf ?
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Marvin-- dexconf is the debconf-based script run by xfree86's postinst for setting up XF86Config-4
gaudenz http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2003/07/msg00519.html and the thread that follows is a good summary of the issues involved.
debianist dexconf is an example for a configlet ?
e.g. a self contained configuring entity?
CIA-2 debian-installer: elmig-guest * r17734 packages/ (arch/s390/netdevice/debian/po/pt.po netcfg/debian/po/pt.po): Updated PT translation
eddyp Marvin--: "in a GUI you typically use on-modification callbacks to update widgets for other questions when the answer to a dependency changes"
agreed, but you don't have to send everything to debconf
Marvin-- debianist: no, a configlet is a python script + glade file
eddyp: uh-huh, so what handles the decoupling of frontend and backend?
eddyp we can have a mixture, gtk works event based and enabling and printing the appropriate options ; the OK button send the INPUT,INPUT.... data
basically the dialogs are dinamically generated/modified
without talking to debconf until I press ok
ok as in ok/next for this step (window/dialog)
debianist will back in 15 minutes. (have to put some fuel into that body)
Marvin-- and what code generates this? where does it come from? this means a *lot* of code for *every* backend udeb
eddyp has to get to know better the udeb mechanism, but events must be linked to something anyway
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eddyp Marvin--: were you involved in the old project?
Marvin-- yes
eddyp I didn't see your name
Marvin-- I think my involvement in it predates the status pages
dinner time
waldi fuck, something closes fds
eddyp Marvin--: are still intersed in the subject?
waldi ups
found it
where is the mklibs repository?
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eddyp Marvin--: as I see it is not a problem to make the decoulping between the fe and the be
same with the communication with debconf..
but Imight be mistaking as I don't know the way debconf works
Marvin-- I'm interested in the general idea of a graphical installer yes, but I remain unconvinced that it can be done in a satisfactory way with our current architecture
then you should start by learning how debconf works
eddyp where can I find it?
only sources?
or is there some documantration
s/documantration/documentation
Marvin-- the debconf spec is part of the debian policy
but you should also read the source of some udebs to see how udebs typically use debconf
netcfg, anna, main-menu etc.
pere it would be nice if someone would add the progress bar into the debconf spec. :)
debianist the debconf spec is part of the debian policy
but you should also read the source of some udebs to see how udebs typically use debcon
CIA-2 debian-installer: cjwatson * r17735 packages/kernel/linux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6/debian/changelog: Release linux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6 0.65.
debianist netcfg, anna, main-menu etc
CIA-2 debian-installer: cjwatson packages * r17736 /kernel/linux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6/0.65/: Tag linux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6 0.65.
Kamion yay for uploading the obligatory huge pile of udebs
anmar is away: I'm busy
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