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Bug#269336: Installation report Sarge RC1

clone 269336 -1
reassign 269336 lilo-installer
reassign -1 tasksel
severity 269336 wishlist
severity -1 wishlist
retitle 269336 Should install a working /etc/lilo.conf file even when LILO installation is cancelled by the user
retitle -1 Should offer a way (special task?) to install Standard priority packages

Quoting Jutta Wrage (jw@hexe.westfalen.de):

> A real problem where the partitions:
> No, I did not want to change anything! - Hmm. go out here.


A lot of usability issues....

Not the first time we get such report and, I'm afraid, this part will
be the most criticized part of the installer, mostly when used in
situations more complicated than the "install on an empty hard disk"

Generally, all comes from the limitations of the "widgets" we
currently use for user interaction : cdebconf.

The best was done with it for building the best interface with what
was available. Anton Zinoviev did a great job at designing partman.

However, most of this will need some serious work, probably *after*
sarge release, for usability issues. Such issues were already
reported, often at Debconf by Margarita Manterola, but noone seriously
worked on it....Anton made the best possible changes he could made.

This is the problem in free software development : as long as you
don't have someone willing to work on something, things are not done.

I also sometimes went lost in partman..:-)

> Next problem was grub:
> I did not want to be my working lilo to be erased, seems to be paranoid,
> but it was only a test installation. In IRC I was told just to skip all questions. Okay. I said no to grup, but then it asked me where to install. And now?
> There was only a back, no forward, no skip.

Widget limitations, currently.

> I tried installation tree times. with the same beginning: Hitting return on the intro screen: 
> - Depending on my way (back or not back) through the installation things where different. As I did not decide anything diffferent, shouldn't that be always the same?

This is because "Go Back" lowers the questions priority for you to go
at the main-menu (it is never shown on default installs because it is
medium priority). Thus, the first two "Go Back" hits change the
priority and you get more questions asked and more items visible in
the menu.

Also, the initial steps of d-i load some d-i components from the
network or CD. So, after these steps, items are automagically added to
the menu when they become available.

> - Seems I should have seen something like "Hit F1 for help" This was not visible on my tft
> - Why did the installation ask me not every time for the kernel to take?

Because it's asked only at medium priority. At high priority (default
installs) there's no need to bother users with that. The installed
kernel depends on the way you booted the install (linux26 or linux)

> Some ideas:
> What about a help on every installation part?

Interface limitations

> Give some text please at teh beginning, that there is a menu, the user may be proptet to, if necessary

Well, this is meant to be in the install manual. Of course, noone ever
reads manuals..:-)

> Couln't a lilo.conf always be installedsuggestionsuggestion (a working one for a dual system would be fine (I did not find one and that of my old notebook is lost)?

*This* should work. But only if you accept to install lilo. The
installer should have detected your existing Linux installation and
will add an entry for booting it. The lilo installer screens show
which "Other OS" was detected.

We could turn this into a wishlist bug : install a working lilo.conf
even if LILO install is not accepted.

Maybe add a special medium priority menu entry asking the user if
(s)he wants to do this.

> There is no desktop in the list of tasks, should be, even if without X

This is because sarge currently doesn't have it because KDE is
currently not in sarge. So, a transitory problem.

> At least I got sarge booting with my lilo now ( I can giive the config, if wanted)
> I am missing some things in base installation:
> ssh is not installed
> telnet is installed :-(
> less is not installed
> sudo ist not installed, must not?

Most of these are Priority: Standard. By default, tasksel only
installs packages with Priority: Base, IIRC

This seems to be a change which could confuse users as woody installs
often ended with Standard priority packages installed when users used
the default dselect choice for adding packages.

I turn this into a wishlist bug against tasksel but I don't really
know if this will be ack'ed....

Maybe adding an entry in tasksel for installing all "Standard"
priority packages ?

I think that going to aptitude will do this, but I'm unsure. Joey
simplified a lot of things in tasksel and this was a deliberate

Jutta, thanks a lot for this detailed install report and the time you
lost^W spent in testing D-I. Though this was not an easy process, I
hope you appreciated the installer. As we discussed on IRC, if you
find some time for coming to the D-I meeting in Oldenburgand have some
discussions with D-I developers there, this will certainly be a great
contribution. I regret I won't be there as I can work on this "user
feedback" part of the work like I did at Debconf, but I guess you find
some oither people for such discussions....

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