Re: Proposal for languagechooser and language list
(-i18n, I should have CC'ed you on my original message.....see -boot
archives for it, sorry......the topic is "how to list languages on the
very first debian-installer screen")
> I don't think a two-stage selection is all that necessary. That seems
> like added complexity for little benefit; the list is only made a little
> longer by including all locales in a single list, and the fewer
> questions the better.
Sure, but do we really need to have this huge list of locales, some of
which being quite confidential (de_BE or de_NL, for
instance....german speaking parts of Belgium or Netherlands are indeed
really small....no offense intended, but how mmuch people will really
choose this?). On the other hand, this combination should be made
possible, so this is why I proposed to go to a 2 stage question.
This is maybe not time for doing this *now* however. We are close to
a fully stable release.
Let's keep this as a suggestion for d-i in the next release...or at
least for the next beta.
> > -simplfy the sentence : just keep the language names (translated, just
> > like they currently are)
>
> Of course, the counterargument is that we can't expect the debconf
> question itself to be usefully localized; so the user may understand
> their language name, but without the complete sentence there may be
> greater confusion as to the application of the language. Does it apply
> to the installer only? To the default system locale once installed? To
> the keyboard? Then again, I'm not sure the answers to these questions
> are all that obvious even /with/ the current sentence. :)
I was thinking about this, yes....and there's probably not a complete
answer to this question.
If the prompt is really simple, I think that every potential user is
able to understand it. Unfortunately, at this time, one has to at
least understand basic english for using a Unix system.
About the *real* target of the language selection, your question
raises an important topic.
The chosen language is in fact the locale the installer runs with. In
the last steps of the installation process, the locales package in
installed and then asks about locales to be used. So the question
should maybe be simplified to "Language for installation".
> > -find a rule for sorting languages :
> > -English (which is the default) should come first
>
> As long as this refers to the C locale (which would also be first if
> sorted alphabetically by locale name -- using the C locale's sort rules,
> that is :), that seems ok. If it's en_US or en_UK people are after,
Yes, that's what I meant. Your suggestion of "International english"
is the best idea, imho.
Regional english dialects such as those spoken in the US colonies
sitting near western Europe may of course be listed at their place.
(this sentence is my usual kidding sentence.....)
> > -Sort other languages. Below are some proposals:
> > Does somebody have comments on this?
>
> I believe that the most useful sort order for a user *trying to find his
> language in the list* is alphabetically by locale code, with locale
> codes listed explicitly in front of the translation. Most ISO locale
> codes are derived from the language's own name for itself, so assuming
> at least basic familiarity with Latin sort order, this would seem to be
> the biggest UI win for the most users.
*This* is a great idea :
C : Choose this to proceed in international English
de_DE : Dies auswählen um auf Deutsch fortzufahen (Deutschland)
fr_FR : Choisissez ceci pour continuer en français (France)
und so weiter....
If noone objects, I'll make the bug report with the appropriate patch.
> Sorting by number of speakers world-wide is interesting, but again,
> would cause frustration for anyone not listed on the first page. Also,
> several of the top world languages currently have little or no l10n
> support in d-i, and the number of *Debian-using* speakers of those
> languages is not necessarily proportional to the number of speakers
> world-wide.
Yes, sure. This was indeed a politically correct suggestion..:-)
My own opinion is that we should list first the languages Debian is
really translated into.
That means, besides international English (no order....this is how
they come to my mind):
-German
-Brazilian portuguese
-Japanese
-Dutch
-Swedish
-Russian
-Spanish
-French
I may forget some of these (italian, hungarian, polish, chinese?
Others?). Again, no offense intended, this is from memory..:)
> One possible hybrid sort would be to choose the first five or six
> "preferred" languages (by whichever criteria) to list first, and then
> sort the remainder alphabetically by country code -- this lets most of
> our users pick from the top, and leaves enough space on the screen for
> other users to observe the sort order.
Thus, the "preferred" languages would be those for which the
distribution translation is as complete as possible.....
Of course, this indeed only means these language have the most active
translation team.
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