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Re: Install Report from a Linux newbie - some comments



--- Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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> 
> Replying with CC since I'm not sure if Eric is still
> subscribed.
> Eric: You might want to subscribe to debian-boot and
> repost your
> experience there; be sure to reference this thread
> by subject -boot
> folks can find the user discussion.
> 
> On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 09:06:21AM -0800, eric brown
> wrote:
> > I tough of posting my Linux experience as a
> complete
> > Linux & Unix newbie that chose Debian to start
> playing
> > with linux. (out of laziness and pure ignorance -
> I
> > wanted to do a net install instead of waiting for
> > entire cds iso to download and had no clue that
> Debian
> > was an "hard distro")
> 
> Roughly my experience in 1997, except I couldn't go
> the CD route and I
> was pre-apt...apt really moved the focus of the
> "distro war" to
> package management on a *big* level (since Debian
> had already won the
> "most complete" DSW years before).
> 
> > My first try: sarge & new installer
> > 
> >  The new one is real simple to use but it scared
> the
> > hell out of me: after installing x the only thing
> my
> > sceen could display was: "warning sync error will
> shut
> > down in 5 sec"
> 
> That's a normal function of the monitor if it's not
> getting a usable
> signal (in this case, getting a signal that would
> take your monitor
> out of range).  Sometimes switching video modes
> sends a out of synch
> signal for a moment.  
> 
> Your monitor at least tells you what's going on:
> Imagine my surprise
> the first time I booted with this monitor (after
> reconfiguring X for
> the new monitor)...and it says "Starting XDM..." and
> my monitor shuts
> off.  Fortunately, geek instinct got the better of
> me: I didn't smell
> anything burning, so I gave it a moment, and the
> monitor came back on
> and drew the XDM login page.
> 
> > But, after rebooting, magic, tadam!, I was
> welcomed by
> > KDM! still didn't figure out what happened.

> Woot!  Autodetected everything OK?
Not everything:

what did work:

The computer is an old IBM Aptiva 2193 with 256mb,
K6-2 550, , integrated AGP SIS 540 video card, SIS 900
ethernet card. 

what did not work:

The auto detect failed to see my Trident sound card,
so I didn't have any sound.  I also had to undust my
old PS/2 mouse, because anything USB didn't work.

I used the ide-pci flavor at boot from the Sarge
netinstall CD, things probably would have be very
different using bf24 (that's what I did on my second
install using woody cd 1 with.)


 
> > I managed to got everything net installed by
> > configuring pppoeconf right at the very beginning
> (and
> > played for the first time with apt, wget and
> lynx). 
> > After choosing a rather random selection
> containing
> > gnome and KDE with taskel, I never managed to get
> my
> > dsl connection to work again (yes I was loggin as
> > root, rebooted etc...)!!!  After intense googling
> with
> > my powerbook (I was installing linux on an old
> Aptiva
> > desktop) I found some bug report on debian
> mentionning
> > a somehow similar problem with the new installer
> and
> > needing hacking in many .conf files that seemed
> > obsolete... And went through too many cryptic
> howtos. 
> > I almost quit linux at that point... I had enough!


> Thanks for sticking it through, though when you're
> trying software for
> the first time, might want to hang back on the known
> stable versions
> for a while until you get used to how Linux works. 
> Though you're more
> than welcome to tough it out!

You're probably right about stable...  But I after
toughing it out for the last 2 weeks, I think (or
naively hope) that the worst is behind.
> 
> > Untill I found an excellent document in French:
> > "Formation Linux" (this NEEDS translation)
> > http://www.via.ecp.fr/~alexis/formation-linux/.
> That
> > was way more detailed on how to install Woody and
> get
> > some real things done (Play cds, burn, configure
> and
> > optimize X etc...)
> > I still haven't found any document matching it in
> > english.


> http://babelfish.altavista.com/  But yeah, there
> will be documentation.

I meant real translation... I might give a try at
translating the document but from what you can see  my
grammar and spelling skills maybe aren't what is best
for the community...

> > Also the too many "use your brain to solve your
> problems" answers to
> > newbies post I ran accross surfing many newsgroups
> are inacceptable,
> > if Debian is to become anything more than a geek
> toy.


> Well, that's the thing: Debian's not out to please
> anybody who doesn't
> contribute.  People who tend to contribute tend to
> be geeks, and right
> now, the geeks are making a move towards accepting
> the newbies.  It's
> a two-way street, though, newbies still should know
> how to ask a smart
> question if they want a smart answer.
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You're absolutely right about this... I just needed to
let some steam off after struggling to get my system
running.  The thing is that the official debian site
is not very newbie friendly so I had to google a lot. 
Maybe a page on debian.org could better point to te
best available ressources aimed at newbies.


> > Installing Woody the old way:
> > 
> > Actually I found installing the old way was
> simpler
> > because now I had proper documentation and new
> what I
> > was doing.   I managed to get everything (almost)
> to
> > work the way I wanted. 


> Woohoo!  This was much my experience back when
> boot-floppies didn't do
> quite as much as it does now.


> > Get pon dsl-provider to work for users:
> > 
> >  (still have to login has root everytime) and
> continue
> > it to work evenafter I unplugged the ethernet
> cable
> > for  more than 5 minutes...
> 
> In /etc/ppp/options, there should be something about
> "demand" in
> there.  Might try fiddling with that to have it
> automagically go up
> and down.

Thx, I'll give this a look. Sorry, my post was not
very clear ...  It is pretty much already in automatic
mode, but when I unplug the cable for more than
approximately 10-15 minutes, I can't get the
connection to work again even as root. I then have to
reboot


> > >From a newbie perspective the debian choice can
> be
> > overwhelming.  I still didn't find a better way
> than
> > apt-cache search to get packages that probably do
> what
> > I want to do.  I normaly guess what is appropriate
> but
> > I would really appreciate a place where you can
> see:
> 
> want to do this : this is the best tool.
> 
> Actually, AFAIK, everybody uses apt-cache search for
> that.  Pipe it
> through less to keep the output from getting
> overwhelming.
> 

> > Finally I would just like to say that are truly
> enjoy
> > the freedom Debian-linux now gives me: I somehow
> fell
> > that I emerged from the MS matrix and now live in
> the
> > free world.   I think that if the Debian community
> put
> > more efforts in documenting more with a DOTHIS
> than a
> > HOWTO approach would help getting more people into
> > Zion. 


> The problem is, Debian's flexibility prohibits such
> drool-proof
> documentation for the most part.  The final
> debian-installer is
> supposed to greatly simplify the process for people
> looking to speed
> through it and get their hands on Debian while they
> burn in (God knows
> we all had a burn in process where you'd reinstall
> every couple weeks
> to get a fresh start).


Thanks for the feedback!


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