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Re: new installer

On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 11:29:43AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 09:12:56AM +0000, simon raven wrote:
> > Le Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 23:52:58 -0800, Ethan Benson a écrit:
> > > On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 09:16:52AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > also .coff kernels don't even work until 2.4.23 (maybe).
> > 
> > ask ben herrenschmidt about that actually. seems that they do work.
> Mmm, since you obviously care about oldworld pmacs, would you care of
> sending us an overview of the different ways of booting on oldworld
> pmacs, and where you get the kernels from for each of them. I gueesed
> already the following :
>   BootX : uses a macos (non-X) bootx program to boot the kernel, no idea
>   which kernel that is, where you get it from and if it supports an
>   initrd.

vmlinux at root of source tree.  initrd is supported.

>   Quik : supports uncompressed kernels (the same as is used with yaboot)
>   and is used to boot oldworld systems from the harddisk. It seems that
>   the Performa 6360 does not work with Quik.

check penguinppc.org/projects/quik/

>   miboot: is also a macos (non-X) ROM based tool, can boot compressed
>   kernels from a floppy, but no idea which kernel this is, and what is
>   used for initrd. Is this the arch/ppc/boot/images/miboot.image ?

vmlinux at root of source tree, initrd is only supported as a
secondary floppy the same way as x86 rescue + root is done.

>   plain OF : uses the .coff kernel, and apparently only works over a
>   serial OF console.

all oldworlds default to sending OF out the serial port, booting a
coff kernel must be done manually at the OF console, which you can't
see without a serial terminal by default.

> And how do you think half of the open source contributors started ? Just
> buy yourself a good C book, or use one of the numerous online tutorials,
> and learn :)))

that takes a great deal of time, longer then there is for d-i
stuff. (but as i said eariler, d-i doesn't use C very much).

> Well, there are actually various parts to the arch/subarch specific
> stuff :
> --- Stage 0 ---
> 1) The initial booting, which uses the kernel-image udeb, but is not
> really part of the debian-installer, as far as i can tell.

it can't, initial booting proceedures vary wildly from arch to arch
and to subarch to subarch.

> --- Stage 1 ---
> 2) Initial hardware detection in stage 1, searches for the CDROM, or an
> alternate way of loading in the udebs.
> 3) Anna loads in the udebs, and has support for per arch/subarch udebs
> list.
> --- Stage 2 ---
> 4) The keyboard chooser will propose keyboards accordying to your
> arch/subarch.
> 5) Second stage hardware detection.
> 6) Partitioning and preparation of the filesystems.

what is used on powerpc?  parted's ui is utterly horrible and
complelty deficient for some requirements of powerpc (such as creating
an 800K Apple_Bootstrap partition (i recommend that be done on both
new and oldworld since yaboot2 is likly to prefer, or require one on
oldworld, yaboot1 and 2 require one on newworld always, size must be
exactly 800K))

> 7) boot-loader and kernel installation
> --- Stage 3 ---
> 8) We reboot and run the normal base-install stuff, everything
> arch/subarch specific should have been solved here, and this is not the
> job of the debian-installer anyway.

really by the time you get here subarch stuff becomes mostly
irrelevant, subarch issues are mainly initial booting, bootloader
setup, and partitioning.

> Mmm, Peter, maybe you or someone could post or document what you showed
> us on the Oldenburg blackboard.
> Anyway, i am doing kernel stuff, so i am mostly interested in 1) as well
> as 7). I suppose 4), 5) and 6) should be ok for oldworld pmacs, as well
> as 3). 2) maybe problematic if the oldworld pmacs are not able to load
> udebs from the cdrom drive.

the CDROM is fully usable once the linux kernel is booted, the CDROM
is just not usable for booting the kernel initially.

Ethan Benson

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