Re: Bug#192305: "q to end, b for begin" ambiguous
On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 10:54:12AM +0800, debian@computerdatasafe.com.au wrote:
> On Sun, 11 May 2003, Thomas Viehmann wrote:
>
> > debian@computerdatasafe.com.au wrote:
> > > A problem with mnemonic keys is that they don't translate.
> > >
> > > While you may find a clear, unambiguous set in English - quite a
> > > challenge if there are more than a few - when you want to try to
> > > translate them to other languages, the scheme falls down.
> > >
> > > Function keys are good. IBM (I mention IBM only because that's where my
> > > experience lies) has been using them since the early 70s.
> > For someone who isn't acquainted to using English whenever touching a computer,
> > mapping arbitrary Letters to Functions is not harder that mapping "Function
> > Keys" (a term that is foreign to them) to Functions. On the contrary, many
> > people have never used that additional row of keys above the numbers.
>
> Quite a bit of software does use them, and for those whose fingers
> aren't as numble as the once were, they are very easy to use: one
> keypress, most common functions do not require holding down another at
> the same time.
>
> I'm in my 50s: I've been using computers for over 30 years. I still
> don't like control-this, control-that.
>
> Both my parents are (alive and) in their 80s. They're thinking of
> getting their first computer. I don't seem them coming to terms with ^W,
> ^Q etc, but maybe I could put labels on the function keys: I've done it
> for myself before.
>
> I know you were not proposing control-{this,that}, but it's a logical
> extension of what you were suggesting
>
>
> > It's far more important to avoid keys they don't know from mechanic keyboards
> > (i.e. it would be optimal to have every function available on keys for letters -
> > starting from "return" and "tab", things get worse).
>
> There are times when simple letters are not enough and you need to
> choose between alternatives such letters combined with {alt,control} and
> function keys.
>
> Function keys were invented for this purpose. Yast (SuSE's setup tool)
> uses them. I gather there are keyboards where this represents a problem,
> I think not because the keyboard lacks the keys but because Yast (or the
> libraries it uses) does not recognise them. In such cases, one uses the
> escape key followed by [0-9]. I don't know that Yast requires more
> functions than that.
>
>
> > Also, shortcuts are almost never translated, and people having ever used
>
> Sounds like discrimination to me;-). I'm peeved enough that Americans
> don't know that we use A4 paper, colour is spelled colour etc. At least
> American is fairly close to English;-).
>
>
> > computer shortcuts before will be happier with "q" for quit than anything else.
> >
> > > I can't for the life of me recall which key provided "cancel."
> > Maybe Escape?
>
> Escape is actually a transmission control character. It's use as
> "cancel" is a functional overload. I found it very strange for years.
>
> The terminals I used back then had no such key. Its function was
> assigned to one of the 24 function keys.
>
> The terminals were IBM 3270s, if you fire up x3270 or c3270 you will get
> the idea. In use, they are a bit like a web browser: you type stuff in,
> but it doesn't go to the host until you press the enter key or one of
> the 24 function keys.
>
This started with
|
| This could almost be a wishlist item, re-prioritize if desired. I hope you
| don't feel this is too much of a nitpicking issue.
|
| "q to end, b for begin" I feel is ambiguous and may mislead people.
| E.g.'s, someone wants to go to the end of the list hitting q, someone
| finished selecting wanting to "begin" the action on their selected
| items...
|
|
And we are talking about a program that an user will only use once.
(no need to be the ultimate userfriendly program)
Please asume that the user can read. On the screen is the information
he/she needs ("q to end, b for begin"). There is no need for using
functions keys, nor there is a need for pressing CTRL-Whatever.
Keep the 'q' and 'b' (or whatever) in "q to end, b for begin"
because they are on all keyboards. (not all keyboards have functionkeys)
Geert Stappers
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