-------- Original Message --------
Hi,
I agree. I think that the null Place should be disabled by default. One
can activate the file manager on the desktop via gnome tweac tool, but
the newer users may have problems with this configuration by default.
Also I think that is better that the Orca Window appears in the desktop,
to indicate that Orca is running, but this will be changed in gnome 3.8.
If gnome 3.4 would activate the file manager by default, Orca would say
"Welcome to Orca. Desktop frame, or something...". This should be easy
to change, for example, if the developers did not want enable the file
manager on the desktop for all users, they would do that when the
accessibility tools was used in the installation, the file manager on
the desktop to be activated.
Best Regards,
El 29/05/2013 07:57 p.m., Christopher Toth escribió:
> On 5/29/2013 6:41 PM, Manuel wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Firstly, sorry for my English.
>>
>> Are you using the Stable version to test in your virtual machine?
>
> Yep, 7.0 netinst, the one available from the download link on debian.org
>> Today, two or three hours ago, I installed (and recorded a guide for
>> the Spanish Community) the 7.0 version in a machine, and I did not
>> had problems wit this.
>>
>> When you are in the install of packages (like Gnome, web server,
>> etc), you can press alt+f4, to show a console where are all commands
>> executed in your system. You would see the progress of the
>> installation of some packages, for example.
> Everything seemed to install correctly.
>
>> To return to the installation assistant, press alt+f1.
>>
>> When i finished the installation, I boot my new system, and speakup
>> does start. Here, without go to another shell, I pressed the CTRL key
>> to shut up it.
>
> Oh, this is the trick. I just figured it was reading the first TTY, so
> I silenced it in the first TTY (I didn't want GDM to eat my enter key)
> I'll use ctrl in future.
>
>> After some time pressing it (it can be solved in future, I think),
>> gdm3 started with Orca, as you mentioned.
>>
>> I wrote the username, then the password, and I choose the Gnome
>> Classic because in the test machine can not run gnome shell. When I
>> do login, Orca tell me Welcome, then it works fine.
>>
>> I did not nothing to kill or restart Orca. I used the Stable version.
>> When Orca does start in the gnome classic, I have to press alt+f1 to
>> know if it is active, because gnome has not active the file manager
>> from the desktop, and Orca does not read nothing, but when I pressed
>> alt+f1, I get the top panel, and this tell me that Orca is running
>> and working.
> It looks like this does the trick, alt+f2 from the state of null
> speech brings me where I'd expect and starts talking, same with other
> shortcuts. Confusingly, when I hit escape, I return to this area of
> null speech (The desktop, you say?) Okay, I'll buy that. I am
> confused, and was extremely confused/frustrated on first start,
> however, because no Orca keystrokes appear to function in this null
> place. Key echo is on, verified when I type in the run dialog etc. but
> not even keys like capslock or numlock are read. If this is an issue
> caused by the user doing the default thing and logging in to Gnome
> classic it looks like my issue boils down to the following:
> When Orca first starts and speaks the Welcome to Orca message, I would
> expect some indication of where I am, and some response to Orca
> keystrokes. Otherwise I am placed under the apparently-mistaken
> impression that I don't have any Orca. As I recall, the Orca Window
> used to be what I was dumped into when I logged in with Orca active,
> but I'm assuming someone turned that off for a good reason. As it
> stands, from a new user's perspective, this behavior feels badly broken.
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> El 29/05/2013 03:26 p.m., Christopher Toth escribió:
>>> List,
>>> I'm an old speakup user who makes my living making accessible
>>> software for the blind for Windows and Mac. Recently I decided to
>>> see how well I could port my stack, primarily Python-based, over to
>>> a modern Debian machine to determine if it would be worthwhile to
>>> cut releases for all three platforms.
>>> Installation was fairly seamless, especially compared to the old
>>> Speakup + Braille N' Speak + Slackware days. I was able to install
>>> to a VMWare 9 virtual machine without any difficulty, someone has
>>> really gotten their act together when it comes to initial
>>> installation, especially with this fancy shmancy software speech.
>>> I performed a standard install, partitioned, selected packages, so
>>> on and so forth. I selected to install package categories 1, 3, 8,
>>> and 10... Debian Desktop environment, print server, ssh server and
>>> system utilities or whatever they're called. Basically the defaults.
>>> There was a time after selecting these categories that I received no
>>> feedback, and a less patient user may have terminated the process,
>>> but after waiting a good 15 minutes it gave me a percentage indicator.
>>> Installation was finally complete. I rebooted the vm, and wonder of
>>> wonders the thing came up blabbering at me! It took me a second to
>>> realize I needed to switch to the first TTY and whack numpad enter,
>>> but I soon made it shut up.
>>> I hit alt+f7 again to return to the gdm login window. I selected my
>>> user and was greeted with a password field. "Quite reasonable," I
>>> thought, while typing my password. "This Linux accessibility thing
>>> has gotten a lot better!"
>>> I pressed Return, waited a few seconds, and was greeted with the
>>> "Welcome to Orca message"
>>> Then...
>>> ...Nothing
>>> I waited.
>>> Still nothing
>>> I waited some more. About 5 minutes since initial login. Still no
>>> speech.
>>> Hm. Okay, this is why I'm on a VM! So I popped out of the VM, fired
>>> up ssh and logged in to my new machine to see if I could see what
>>> the heck was going on.
>>> But wait! I have no idea where orca sticks logs, if it even uses
>>> syslog, or anything! What can I do?
>>> Well, I thought, perhaps Orca has somehow scuffed itself up and all
>>> I need do is restart it. So I issued killall orca from the shell. I
>>> reactivated my VM, hit alt+f2, typed orca, and wonder of wonders it
>>> came up for real this time!
>>> This ... is a problem. A huge, ugly disgusting problem that I hope
>>> can be rectified very hastily.
>>> I'm a Gnu/Linux user for more than a decade and more than ready to
>>> get in and monkey with stuff. But there is absolutely no excuse for
>>> having the first-run experience of a new user include switching
>>> shells, followed by killing their screen reader, followed by
>>> switching back and restarting it. This is absurd and untenable.
>>> You literally cannot have a more standard installation experience. I
>>> did nothing outside the norm, instead accepting all the defaults.
>>> I am somewhat frustrated. To me, myself a software developer, this
>>> experience points strongly at a culture which does not test or
>>> otherwise provide quality assurance for the code they produce.
>>> Surely a few people at least tried to do bare-metal installs on
>>> virtual machines at least for testing purposes? Let alone any actual
>>> unit/integration tests.
>>> Whatever the case, I strongly hope that this can be sorted out. As
>>> it stands, the best way I could describe it is shameful, jarringly
>>> so after the nearly-perfect installation experience.
>>> I welcome your thoughts on this, and offer myself and some of my
>>> time for trying to come up with and implement a solution.
>>> Thanks for your time,
>>> -Q
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Manuel.
Blog: http://manuel.a12x.net
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