Re: CD.

[Michael Schmitz <SCHMITZ@LCBVAX.CCHEM.BERKELEY.EDU>]

Hi,

>> >The Distribution will contain an complete Debian system (as far as it
>> >exists for m68k). What makes it a new distribution is that its working 
>> >even for newbies. Unfortunally Debian being unstable and incomplete
>> 
>> What makes it 'working even for newbies' if it's 'containing a complete
>> Debian system' (or 'based on Debian/68k', to quote one of your previous
>> posts)? By which you -acidentially or not- imply the system your 'distribution'
>> is based on isn't 'working for newbies', BTW. I don't quite get the 
>> logic of the argument. And I don't see the problem for newbies to copy 
>> a bunch of files to disk, start the bootstrap and walk through the options
>> of the install ramdisk. In all cases, trouble began later, if any. 
>> So what's the difference that makes the same Debian packages work for newbies
>> (in your case) that didn't before (supposedly)? Just trying to understand
>> the subtle differences here ..
>
>The installation routine as present for Debian doesn't work on m68k
>(Amiga). There are no proper boot disks so te installation of the
>kernel and modules fails. 

Pish. Use the same boot disks as for Atari, and boot with a fat kernel without
modules. The kernel that's installed to /boot is irrelevant if you use 
ataboot, or amiboot. And the modules installed are irrelevant if you use a
non-module kernel (you even can prevent the /etc/init.d/modules script from
trying to load modules if the kernel doesn't support modules). 

Or even better: provide a modularized kernel and a modules tarball so a Debian
rescue/drivers disk can be built. You've done that stuff anyway, I guess, so
why are you still complaining 'there's no install floppies for Amiga'?? 

>Also only one Network device is suported and that only during installtation.

???? What the hell do you need a network device for, during installation? 
I might have missed the point, but 'install from FTP/NFS' wasn't among the 
choices ?? The network config is only done after installing the base system. 

I agree, the way SLIP and PPP is 'configured' (without adding the slattach/pppd
commands to /etc/init.d/network) is a joke, but that would be easy to fix 
in case of static SLIP. dip and pppd should be configured carefully after
booting from the base system; that's the first place you'll need them.

>Eagle will support up to 4 (at the moment) network devices and one is
>able to reconfigure them any time one wants with the very same script.

I don't see the point. Ethernet is configured OK (all it takes for that
is ifconfig, and that's done by the ramdisk). And I think configuring SLIP or
PPP doesn't belong in the install disk. YMMV, as usual, but if you're producing 
a CD, why provide for NFS installs??


>Apart from that the Debian installation routine is quite allright, but 

Thanks for pointing that out. To me, it seems what you did is build a
modularized kernel, added network config stuff to the ramdisk and call that
a vastly improved installation tool. I'm still wondering why none of this 
was fed back into Debian/68k?? (Actually, I'm only half wondering, but why 
would someone want to do this instead of bringing Debian/68k an important step
closer to fully supporting Amiga? Must be a marketroid decision ...)

>as you said troubles come later. Many things that I saw that broke the 
>system lately where problems with dselect or dpkg and not by the package
>files itself.

The only trouble I saw lately (Dec. 20 packages) was missing net support for
dpkg-ftp. If you solved that problem, it would only be fair to share the 
solution. I've not had problems with dselect or dpkg at all, except for
the stupid Mac HFS stuff and that was solved by running dpkg on each
binary-m68k subdirectory in turn, manually. Precisely what dselect does to
install, on all subdirs at once. No problem whatsoever.
And slattach is broken, patch sent to the maintainer - did you fix slattach?? 
Or do you ship a defective product?

So what is that rumour 'problems with dselect or dpkg break the system'??

>> And the question whether source is included was a serious one ...
>
>Do you mean source for the debian package? There will (as far as I
>know) be a source CD of Debian awaylable. Of cause the Sources wont
>fit onto the CD with the binaries. If you mean the sources for the

I meant exactly that. Read the GPL lately?

>installation routines and configure routines they will be copyright by 
>Eagle and will come under some sort of GPL or Berkley
>licens. Depending on that licens the source will be available or
>not. (also depending on the parts of sources we used during developement). 

Will be available or not. Makes me ROTFL or not. Whatever. Both GPL and
Berkeley license permit source distribution, so there can't be a problem with 
that. There can only be a problem with your or Egal's attitude. 

And I have a real problem with that - if you used GPLed source for the
installation stuff, you're required by the GPL to redistribute source under
GPL, or not distribute anything. It's that easy. You wanna check your position.
(In case you didn't get the point: I'm interested in seeing that code, to
see what it does and how Debian/68k could benefit doing similar things. I don't
want to copy it. I don't know if your way of handling the installation makes 
any sense, just curious what Debian/68k might learn from it).

I've even got a bigger problem with a company only taking (free software, where
'free' isn't about money) and not sharing any modifications to it. 

Don't get me wrong: My problem is with the _company_, not with you personally
(and I don't want to know how deep you're involved with them). Smacks of
'let's take Debian, sell it, and the hell don't share the improvements: we're
competitors, after all!'. A rip-off. 
And I'm not raging against the fact that someone makes Debian/68k (that's 
what it is, call it any way you like) available on CD before the fact, though 
I still think that's not a bright idea. You will have ironed out install and 
upgrade glitches, and users will be happy, and that's a Good Thing. 
The way this whole business was a one-way road is what's making me mad.

>> Do tell ... I hope the 'support' will be present on the newsgroup, as that's 
>> the first point of contact for many newbies. 
>
>Support will mainly be handled via email or snailmail. Questions on
>News will also be answered, but of cause not all newsgroups can be
>read.

comp.os.linux.m68k would be fine, thanks. Add the few Amiga groups to it, and
tell people where to post. You might want to focus on the German language 
groups if the majority of the users is German. There's enough people posting 
to c.o.l.m68k in the wrong language.

	Michael

"Check the GPL, Luke"


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