So what is happening now with this discussion about DebConf organization? The mailing list thread seems to have died out, without us appearing to be any closer to a new delegation. On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 07:30:37PM +1300, martin f krafft wrote: > > Debian should protect itself from serious issues with DebConf > > organization, not only because some of those issues could maybe > > put the Debian project at jeopardy (even if it's a bit hard to > > imagine), but also because it's extremely important to continue to > > have successful DebConfs. > So these are two issues, but I don't think a delegation will help > with the second: you cannot delegate the obligation to run > a successful DebConf. In the end, it's a team that puts it on, and > I don't see delegates facilitating that. > And this is mainly because volunteer delegates are mostly there to > exercise veto power, but DebConf does not get organised through > vetos. I think this is a pathological view of the function of the chair delegation. The function of the chairs should *not* be to "exercise veto power", any more than that should be the function of an executive in a company. The proper role of the chairs should be to ensure the functioning of the DebConf team and the success of the conference. It is the delegates who are directly responsible to the DPL and to the Debian Project for this, not any self-selected DebConf team. If the delegation text, or the selection of chairs, don't reflect this responsibility, then that should be corrected. There are also people in the DebConf team who seem to think that they know best and that the DPL and any delegated chairs should get out of the way of the business of organizing the conference. *That* is absolutely unacceptable, and as long as people involved in DebConf organization persist in comporting themselves as if they have autonomous authority without accountability to the DPL, we are going to continue to have problems with the organization of the team and with the organization of the conference. > > Of course, a functioning team could avoid most issues, but I think > > that we want to keep the possibility to have bids led by people > > who have relatively little DebConf or even Debian experience. By > > providing a safety net, chairs are a compromise that make it > > easier, less risky, to have such inexperienced (and more likely to > > be malfunctioning) bid teams. > I understand the motivation and I agree that we need to enable bid > teams with less experience to put on great conferences, but this > requires a dedicated team, forward-thinking, and good mentoring. > I don't see how a delegation provides a safety net. Without either a direct sign-off by the DPL or a delegation from the DPL, no one involved in DebConf organization has any authority to use Debian's name to solicit sponsorship. It is a necessary check on the DebConf team that there be a clear chain of authority leading back to the DPL; otherwise, DebConf as it's currently organized is an entirely fraudulent enterprise. So if the DPL doesn't want to delegate this authority to chairs, then the other option is for the DPL to be directly involved in the decisions about how the conference is run and how it spends its money. I think it is wise of the DPL to delegate this responsibility, not least of all so that there can be continuity of decision making across elected DPLs and not require newly-elected DPLs to have to get up to speed instantly after election in order to deal with the time-based demands of conference organization. But whether it's the DPL or a delegate, the team needs to understand that everyone here is answerable to the project leader in a not at all hypothetical way. The discussion should be about the best structure for the team *within that constraint*, and not as some free-floating organization that pulls together a successful conference every year with nothing but a shared sense of camaraderie and loyalty to one another to guide them. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org
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