[Debconf-team] (was ... thanks for all the fish) Celebration of DebConf's challenges
On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 8:44 PM, Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> so ten days ago I've said these somewhat sad words on IRC, in private:
>
> [23:07] < h01ger> | i think i'm just fed up with debconf
> [23:07] < h01ger> | i've been doing this for too long to be able to enjoy
> having the same old arguments yet again
> [23:08] < h01ger> | yesterday i was thinking i want to become a "debconf
> wizard" (like the release team has wizards), now i think i just want to quit
> and not be involved at all anymore. (i will continue with videoteam, at least
> for the time being. and as such also with debconf-admin, but thats really it
> and no day to day admin stuff except whats needed for video)
> [23:09] < h01ger> | i will sleep over it but i doubt i will change my
> mind
> [23:10] < h01ger> | i've had the wizard idea some months ago already and
> forgot and was quite happy i remembered yesterday, as it seemed like a
> painless way out.
> [23:10] < h01ger> | but now i just think i want to get out. fast and
> completly. i'm tired of arguing the same "crap" over and over again,
> [23:11] < h01ger> | and then also get crap for that
> [23:11] < h01ger> | i do have better and more fun things to do. i hope :)
>
> So I have slept over this for several nights and all I can say for sure is
> that by now I'm really looking forward to not being involved in organizing
> DebConf(s) for some time, maybe forever. Also, I have been pondering this more
> than once or twice in the last 2y, so this is not a rushed decision by me.
>
> (Still, seems I didnt want to finish+send this mail so I procastrinated all
> day and now I'm quite tired and this mail is too long and not as coherent as I
> would like it to be. Apologies for this.)
>
> And I'm still not 100% sure if I'd really want to take a break now, or just a
> sabatical (til after dc14? til after dc15?) or if I really just want to quit
> and not be involved anymore. So let's say I quit now and maybe I will come
> back one day. I've been involved in organising since DebConf5 and these we
> were very very great times and I do look forward at having great DebConfs in
> future. Just, at least for now, rather as a regular attendee (and videoteam
> volunteer. At least for now, I don't plan on quitting debconf-video. It's
> simply too much fun! :)
>
> Unsurprisingly I will also stay around, so feel free to ask me anything
> anytime, ignoring requests is usually rather easy ;) Also I won't guarantee I
> will be able to *not* do anything at+during DebConfs itself (as opposed to
> those other 50 weeks a year), but I will try ;-p
>
> My main reason is stimply that I'm tired of the headless circus debconf-team
> has become and that I want to spent (way) less time (co-)organizing something
> which is largely self organized and chaotic, and where organizers spent
> countless hours chatting and planning things many of them have never done
> like this before, which then leads to repeative + long + "contemporary"
> discussions, of which *I* had too many by now... I've discussed too many
> times too many good and not so good plans how to improve things and how to
> document what, and yet we have done too little, esp. with the flood of
> new+eager new people we thankfully have every year.
>
> IMHO there haven't been many/enough experienced people in the team who are
> _constantly_ supportive / reacting properly, thus those who are (or try)
> cannot keep up doing so, then get tired and then (again and again) fail to
> document things properly and thus also fail to get more/enough people with
> long term involvement. (Also documenting alone doesnt help, if the structures
> etc aint formally clear and/or are are sometimes informal...)
>
> Despite all of this: each year *at* DebConf we do work very well together to
> make it happen. Again and again.
>
> I'm sorry we as chairs (also) failed at fixing this mess and I'm still proud
> of the things we achieved when I was part of debconf-team, however that was
> defined.
>
> I'm not really sure what exactly has happened so that DebConf suddenly feels
> as a headless circus, even though it has worked on informal rules for many
> years very well - and I am definitly not interested in pointing fingers, I
> just would like to understand why, so that maybe we can improve for next
> years.
>
> Some of what I think is important to be fixed/changed I've said at
> http://penta.debconf.org/dc13_schedule/events/1089.en.html - I'm really sorry
> that I've lost the energy - at least for now - to discuss and implement the
> changes I would like to see! (I'm really unhappy not being able to finish this
> properly, but it doesn't help - neither me nor DebConf - if cannot let it go
> and yet am unable to hold+handle it at the same time... So: /me waves.)
>
> And then, I've also learned here that many organisational matters (about
> DebConf) don't matter as much as we organizer think they do: as long as
> awesome people come together, awesome things will happen. A nice environment
> will help, but if it's not given / needs improvements, awesome people will
> improve things. And in the end, things will just be fine. We also *do* have
> more experience with that then 10y ago - even though DebConf orga lacks some
> things.
>
> As I see it DebConf has become a big contributor in changing communication and
> working together in Debian for the better, especially when compared with
> 10-15y ago. And by now we (collectivly!) also do know a lot more about
> organizing DebConfs, even though it's not as well documented as it could be
> and even though there are still many other things to be improved about
> DebConfs too. To put it positivly: DebConf and Debian still have many good
> opportunities to grow and you are invited to make it real ;-)
>
> So, thank you for making DebConfs happen and fun! Many thanks for making
> Debian happen and fun too! :-) Without DebConfs I wouldn't be a DD today.
>
>
> cheers,
> Holger
>
> P.S.: I will still reply to those replies about my suggestion to create two
> more debconf projects on alioth, as I still think it's really important to
> care about private data of our attendees, even and especially years after
> DebConfs.
First let me say thank you for all the years of important work, and
I'm happy to hear you still plan to keep working on video-team, and
that you will be near and perhaps get involved again in the future.
Although much of the text below was part of a draft I was planning to
send separately, I decided that much of it agreed with your
observations, and tied into the same themes. If it does read strictly
as a response, please understand that is why.
While there has been a lot of discussion recently (and other the
years) of our pain points, I think we need to take a step back and
understand what all the organizers have accomplished is pretty
amazing. Especially considering our challenges. (Some of these
challenges are shared with Debian as a whole, but a few are unique to
DebConf.)
1) Organizers hail from dozens of cultures
2) 100+ individual personalities (arguably debconf-team may be one of
Debian's largest teams.)
3) Huge turnover on the teams. IE: I'd estimate 80%+ turnover among
those doing the heavy lifting
4) No stability in the venue
5) No stability in the host country
6) All volunteer
The fact is we create some huge handicaps for ourselves, by choice,
and it's pretty amazing that we able to accomplish what we have,
without a small anchor of paid staff that the majority of large
conferences have.
We willingly change venues and host countries each year, such that we
basically have to reboot much of the organizing team each year, and
start from scratch when it comes to learning the ropes on *local*
processes. (I believe beyond the DC0/DC1 repetition in Bordeaux, DC14
is the first time DebConf is being held in the same host country as a
previous DebConf, however still, it's not the same
venue/region/bidteam, so we still have lots of learning curves to deal
with.)
I say this, because I think we've all felt frustrated at times, and we
seem to focus on the frustration (myself included at times). Perhaps
part of the answer is to take a step back and remember that what we
are trying to accomplish is non-trivial, and the conditions we are
trying to accomplish them under aren't SUPPOSED to be easy. (and never
will be.)
Anyway, I'm certain we can figure something out. I think that one
thing that would really help is a clearer set of expectations for bid
teams. Perhaps the team, with oversight and help from the chairs,
needs to really focus on documenting these expectations where we can?
I know for sponsors-team, I have made it an explicit goal to have
better documentation ready for DC15. (However one of the key lessons
learned this cycle is that we really NEED to start fundraising a lot
sooner, so while I will have notes to hand over, they may not be ready
as a set of polished documentation.)
Cheers,
Brian
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