Hi Gaudenz, On Mon, Jul 08, 2013 at 10:12:51PM +0200, Gaudenz Steinlin wrote: > Brian Gupta <brian.gupta@brandorr.com> writes: > > That said, it does seem the hourly rates quoted seem high for the > > nature of the work, so it would probably be worth exploring lower cost > > options, but in the end, I think we really should be looking at not > > having Developers missing sessions to wash dishes. > I can assure you that for Swiss prices the rates quoted are on the > lowest end of what's possible. I'm sure this won't get cheaper. > It also seems clear to me that we need 2 shifts of people. We can't > expect them to stay for 10 hours a day at this price. Maybe the time > estimates of Le Camp (2h after each meal for 3-4 persons) are a bit high > because they are probably based on young adults. But even 3 very > efficent paid students won't be magically faster. With paying only 3 > persons instead of 4 we are already on the lower end of Le Camp's > estimate. So I'd trust Le Camp to know best how much time it takes to do > this. > I have not yet made my mind about wheter this should be done by paid > students or volunteers. I see benefits both ways. But if we are going to > discuss this, please accept that we can't further cut on the cost for > the paid version and that it really takes the time we estimate. Not > accepting this just leads to a decision that won't work when confronted > with reality. The hourly rate itself seems reasonable to me, but I'm confused about the overall estimate. From Raphaël's mail: > So, my suggestion is to have two teams : > a) 3 people from 10:00 to 16:00 > b) 3 people from 16:00 to 22:00 That's clearly much longer than 2h for each meal; in fact, it's 12 hours per day, which is twice as many 2h blocks as we have meals. What's the breakdown of these numbers? Are we assuming that we're paying them for travel time in addition to time working? Are they covering duties beyond just dishwashing? For instance, Didier mentions that one of the tasks is to put plates on the tables. But I don't understand why this is something we need to pay someone to do, as opposed to having a stack of plates + a basket of silverware and letting people take them as they come in the door. That's a task which is much easier to parallelize than the cleanup part. FWIW I'm firmly in the camp of those who think that we should not rely on volunteers for dishwashing, but I think we should still be careful to only pay for what we really need. Given that we already have a number of volunteers who feel strongly about this, maybe a compromise position would be to plan to cover one or two of the meal shifts with volunteers, and use paid staff only to cover the (possible) gap for the other meal(s)? -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org
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