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Re: Sprint on Seturday 12th July: Reforming ftpmaster team



Dear all,

Thank you all for the very fruitful discussion yesterday!
Jörg, thank you for providing valuable insights into how the FTP team works. It would be great to document this knowledge somewhere—perhaps in the Wiki or RST.

Here are some notes from the meeting. Luke, thanks for setting up the technical infrastructure for it.
================

FTP meeting workshop held on July 12, 2025., 14:00 - 15:00, Debconf25

What Was Discussed

The meeting focused on addressing concerns within the Debian community regarding the FTP team's operations, particularly the delays in processing new packages.
Key discussion points included:
  • FTP Team Responsibilities:

    The team's work is divided into three main areas:
    • Running the Archive: This includes day-to-day operational tasks, managing software releases, and fixing issues like broken packages.
    • Coding: Maintaining and improving the Debian Archive Kit (DAK), the software that runs the archive. The code is mostly Python, SQL, and Perl.
    • New Package Processing: Reviewing new software submissions to ensure they meet Debian's standards for licensing and copyright.
  • New Package Processing Delays:
    it was acknowledged that new packages often wait a long time
    in the queue. This delay is a significant point of frustration for Debian contributors.
  • Causes for Delays:
    The delays are attributed to several factors:
    • Manual Review: Every file in a new package is checked manually by a team member to ensure it complies with Debian's legal and technical rules.
    • Legal Uncertainty: The current review process is based on US export laws that may no longer be relevant. The team is waiting for final legal guidance before changing its procedures.
    • Technical Bottleneck: All processing happens on a single, central server ("FTP master host"). This makes it difficult to grant access to more people and scale up the review work.
  • Communication:
    The FTP team is often perceived as a "black box" because contributors have little visibility into
    the status of their submitted packages. While it's possible to ask for updates on IRC, many people are not aware of this or are hesitant to do so.
  • Proposed Solutions:
    • The main proposed solution is to move the new package processing work to a separate host. This would allow more people to safely participate in reviews without needing access to the critical main archive server.
    • There was a strong call to improve transparency by documenting the team's internal processes on a public platform like the Debian Wiki.

Existing Problems

  • The new package review process is slow and acts as a bottleneck for Debian contributors.
  • There is a lack of communication and transparency about the status of packages in the review queue.
  • The current technical architecture, which relies on a single host, makes it difficult to onboard new team members and improve processing times.
  • Progress on redesigning the review process is blocked by the need for updated legal guidance on export laws.
  • More developers are needed to help maintain and modernize the archive software.

Action Items

  1. Finalize Legal Questions: Formulate and send the necessary questions to lawyers to get clear guidance on current legal requirements, which will unblock changes to the review process.
  1. Improve Documentation: Create public documentation on the Debian Wiki (or RST-Markdown doc) explaining the FTP team's workflow, especially the new package review process, to increase transparency.
  1. Plan for Technical Migration: Begin the technical work to separate the new package processing queue from the main FTP host. This involves modifying the process upload and process new components of the archive software.
  1. Recruit More Help: Create a clear, public list of tasks and needed features to encourage more people to contribute to coding and improving the archive tools.

================
You can also find the notes here:
https://pad.dc25.debconf.org/p/3-package-acceptance-in-debian-challenges-and-o

Feel free to add to or update the notes.


Best regards,


Anton



Am Sa., 12. Juli 2025 um 08:21 Uhr schrieb Andreas Tille <tille@debian.org>:
Hi Thorsten,

Thanks for sharing your perspective — I really appreciate it.

Am Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 10:14:16PM +0000 schrieb Thorsten Alteholz:
> > I’d love to have some open brainstorming about improvements and
> > alternatives in our archive processing and admin workflows (including
> > DAK).
>
> Just some thoughts for your discussion: The results of my trainee experiment
> are rather impressive. A new trainee who had no ideas about any ftpmaster
> workflow should do what he thought was best to check a package. After some
> time he "reinvented" the current procedure.

Sounds promising.  Nicolas Mora will join from remote.  We'll highly
estimate his insight.

> So from my point of view the
> workflow for NEW processing is fine and there is no need to turn it upside
> down. Of course this task is one of the most boring tasks imaginable and not
> everyone is capable of doing it.

In my view, some of the tension between the FTP team and the wider
developer community may come from mutual misunderstandings. The purpose
of today’s meeting is not to turn anything upside down — unless the team
itself (including any new members) agrees that changes could make the
work more effective and enjoyable.

It’s important to me that this essential task is handled by enough
people to match the workload — and that those doing the work have the
space to shape how it’s done, in a way they find satisfying. I believe
adding new members is part of that, and they should have a say in
whether or not to adopt new procedures.

I've sensed frustration on both sides (and I worry I may have
unintentionally contributed to it myself). That’s why open conversation
feels so important--and that’s the main reason we’re here today.

Kind regards
    Andreas.

--
https://fam-tille.de


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