Re: Bikeshedding
Hi aj
On 2019/03/29 06:32, Anthony Towns wrote:
> FWIW, I think giving every DD their own bikeshed that they can paint
> whatever colour they like would be by far the biggest improvement possible
> in Debian today. [2]
>
> As a result, I kind of disagree with Joerg's statement in his platform
> that "As the DPL is not the lead of actual technical development, it is
> not for the DPL to find technical solutions for the challenges we face"
> -- I think spending time making a huge technical improvement for the
> project, like bikesheds, would be the best way to demonstrate leadership
> (whether done by the DPL or not), and honestly I'd be more impressed
> seeing a DPL do that compared to a DPL spending a year's time focussed
> on mediating disputes and PR. Obviously, YMMV.
Well, there are two sides to that coin.
In the literal sense I tend to agree with Joerg on that one, the DPL
shouldn't lead actual technical development.
Having said that, the DPL does tend to have a lot of attention that can
be used to bring focus and limelight to a project, and I think in that
way a DPL could use that to help keep momentum and focus for a
project-wide goal. However, I think such goals need to go through our
usual processes. If I were to become DPL, I would very likely make use
of the DEP process and get an approved DEP for something like bikesheds
before driving that. I don't think it's the DPLs place to just chase the
ideas that are cool to them (although, of course it does help if that's
aligned with the project in terms of DPL enthusiasm), but it's important
that the DPL spends energy where the project needs it with the backing
of the members in the project.
> * Debian is made up of a lot of policies, and rules; and often has a
> lot of arguments and hurt feelings. Debian's also made up of a lot of
> genius (and admittedly not so genius) code and technical achievements.
> Usually, DPLs seem to spend all their time dealing with policies and
> conflicts, rather than technical stuff.
Heh, you've intermingled quite a few things there. I'll reduce it to
this: policies and rules are our friends, they help keep things simple
and help move us forward. Our rules aren't sacred text carved out on
stone tablets either, they exist to serve our project. When they fail in
doing so, we should look at enhancing them.
I agree that the DPL shouldn't only focus on minutia, and have also
addressed that in my platform. However, it has been unfortunate that
some of the previous DPLs had little choice in the matter due to
circumstances during their terms.
> * Do you think bikesheds are actually a bad idea, or know of any other
> particular roadblocks in the way of making bikesheds happen? If Joerg
> is too busy to do it, do you have any ideas on how others could make it
> happen (within Debian, not as a derivative of some sort)? If elected,
> would you help remove those roadblocks?
I don't think it's a bad idea, although personally I'm not fond of the
nomenclature. As DPL I would certainly support it. Sprints seem to have
proven themselves in Debian to get blocks of work that's otherwise
difficult to co-ordinate done. As DPL I would be happy to approve
funding for such sprints, but even then you'll need the people who are
willing to do this work to begin with.
> * As far as technical projects go, is there anything you think would
> have more of an impact than having bikesheds available to every DD?
There are probably too many to mention. As I see it, bikesheds solve a
few very specific problems, but I can't see a reason to think of it as
the most important project in Debian right now.
Having said that, I think people who care about it should keep the
conversation going. Schedule IRC meetings, schedule BoFs at DebConf
(CfP's are open now btw), make notes about those in etherpads and put
together a kick-ass DEP that everyone can get behind. There are plenty
of good ideas that die quietly in mailing list threads, if an idea is
important and people care about it, they will get behind you if you put
the energy in to it.
-Jonathan
--
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) <jcc>
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian Developer - https://wiki.debian.org/highvoltage
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ https://debian.org | https://jonathancarter.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Be Bold. Be brave. Debian has got your back.
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