Re: Newsreader: Best of the bunch?

[furufuru@ccsr.u-tokyo.ac.jp]

Steve Lamb wrote:
> furufuru@ccsr.u-tokyo.ac.jp wrote:
> > Of course!  But, I'm talking about COMMON functions such as
> > selecting regions of text, copying it to the clipboard, pasting it,
>
>     Which is what I alluded to so I have no idea why all this bluster
> before getting to where I agree with you.  *shrug*

Sorry if I offended you.  I didn't mean to.  Anyway, we have agreed
that it's better to have the same set of keys for common
functionalities.

> > jumping to another window,
>
>     In what context?  What happens when you have a window inside of a
> window.... whoops.

I guess my term "jumping to another window" may have been be confusing.
I meant that you can go to any "buffers" within emacs.  You can hide
any buffer or show it as a window.  All switching and selection are
done with keyboards.  And, since everything is a buffer, you can jump
from mail summary "window" (showing subjects and senders of email)
to your text file "window", for example.

[...]
> > Exactly.  And that small percentage is what you use most
> > frequently in your daily life.  At least this is true for me.
>
>     Which doesn't imply that one should program everything inside
> a text editor.

I'm not saying one should program everything inside a text editor.
I'm not advocating that style.  I completely agree with you.
What I want is 1) common keystrokes for common functionalities
and 2) that most things can be done with keyboard only.  Emacs
happens to give me both.  As I said, if I find a better environment
which gives me that, I'll switch to it.

>  The proper way would be to provide that functionality globally by a
> controlling program or, failing that, community standards.

Yes, that will do, too.  I don't know if that's "the" proper way,
though.

[...]
> > Perhaps you work very differently than I.
> > I don't have a motivation to switch editors, so I don't know
> > what problem is there in not switching editors.
>
>     Flexibility comes to mind.  Not only in one's work environment but
> one's self.  [...]  Somehow not being able to use the exact same
> keystrokes for some functions certainly hasn't killed my ability to
> do work.  In fact when confronted with a lack of options I can make
> do with what is available.

I see.  That's the difference between you and me.  You are much
more flexible.  When I use another editor, I constantly hit wrong keys,
which is SO irritating that I can't use it.  I have no choice.  And,
I'm feel so comfortable on emacs.  If I switch, I need to switch once
and for all.

> > (Another important requirement is that the keys shouldn't
> > be far from the home position.  I hate to use arrow keys,
> > for example.  My keyboard even doesn't have ones!)
>
>     Which is plain foolishness.  Again the whole zen of the editor wars
>  thing. People quibble about the microscopic amount of time it takes them
> to move their hands here and there yet want common keys.

It's not a matter of time.  Perhaps, you are so flexible that you
don't see it.  Well, how should I explain it? . . . Well, I feel more
comfortable when my hands remain around the home position and
uncomfortable when I need to move them away so often.  I'm sure
that that won't make any difference in terms of time.  I'm not
talking about the "zen"; I'm not talking about the kind of religious
war you allude to. . . . Do you drive a car?  What if the
turn signal switch were located at the center console as a button
and each time you use it you needed to reach it removing your hand
away from the steering wheel?  You'll eventually get used to it
for sure.  The time you need to operate it wouldn't be any different.
Nevertheless, don't you think it more comfortable if the switch is
located around the steering wheel as it actually is for most
modern cars?   Also, what if each model has the switch located
at slightly different places?  For example, I'm not able to operate
the car radio without looking, when driving a different car from mine.
Similarly, arrow keys are located differently from keyboard to
keyboard (look at laptop keyboards); variations in alphanumeric keys
are much less.  This bothers me because I'm not flexible.
(So, the control key is a BIG problem.  Fortunately, I manage to
 map it to the left of the "A" key for every model.)

It's comfortableness that I'm after.  I don't think emacs is ideal,
but it's better than anything I've experienced so far.  You may call
me inflexible.  That's right.  I'm easily irritated when things work
differently.  But, please don't call me a fool.

Cheers,
Ryo