Re: [OT] anyone ever look at gentoo distribution, seems to use a bsd ports/apt-like
> Sounds intriguing. Clearly the trend in debian to provide build
dependencies
> is similar to the above functionality. anyone have any experience with
gentoo.
Debian build dependencies really are NOT comparable to Gentoo's portage..
Let's take a small example.
let's say you LOVE Kde, your printing system is PDQ and the world may burst,
you won't change it,
you use a Pentium 4 and you can't bear some people may use Athlons and
pollute the package system
with athlon optimized packages and added to that, you live in a weird
country where you would get killed
by the government if you ever use SSL.
on his side, Mr X uses a 486 for his router, with NO application compiled
with X, SSL, and wants everything
that supports it to be compiled with SSL
on my side, I use a Duron 700, I WANT to get optimized applications for my
CPU (like wmplayer..), I want
every single supported program to compile with GNOME support, I don't care
about flat Gtk, and wouldn't
install any Qt based shit. Everytthing MUST be compiled with SSL, and I hate
the console, so every console
application that provides X support (VIM, for ex..) must be compiled with
X.. and I need LDAP
So, let's take an example of implementing these 3 situations with debian :
Debian is smart.. it tries to fulfills everyone's goal by splitting and
splitting and splitting packages again
so, for you, it's easy, you'll install all your applications, and install
all the yourapps-kde, yourapps-pdq,
and for the packages that *really* (really depends on the conception of
debian developpers) needs optimisation,
you have several version for each cpu.. -mmx, -athlon.. etc...
since debian didn't allow ssl in main, it was easy to you to avoid SSL, it's
going to be a lil harder in the future, though
ok, so you get about what you need with debian, except :
- all your binaries are compiled for 486, so you DO lose CPU time.
- SSL will be problematic in the future, but it's always possible to block
the SSL ports, and you're *ok*, even if it's not THE solution..
- you have 3 times as many packages as you have software installed.. it's
not really a problem, but it's a mess, and you always
have to pay attention to install the -option package you need, or you're
f*cked
now, for Mr X
he uses a 486, great for him, he's among the 1% of debian users who do have
the packages optimized for their CPU.
he doesn't want X, ok, he just has to pay attention
he wants every single package that supports SSL to use it.. then he has to
pay attention to install the -ssl version of the packages
otherwise he just doesn't have SSL. so, each time he wants to install
something, he better do a apt-cache search name to be sure
there is no -ssl version.
it works for him, except :
- what to do when a package isn't compiled with SSL ? (there are some in
woody...)
for me,
I have to pay attention to install the -gnome packages, when availaible
I have to pay attention NOT to install any package that has Qt/KDE support
compiled-in
like Mr X, I have to pay attention to install the right -ssl packages
I have to add all the -ldap packages to the packages I know they support
LDAP
It works, except :
- what to do when there's something like samba.. samba DOES support LDAP,
it's just it screws up /etc/ flat files support.
So debian doesn't compile samba with LDAP, for backward compatibility.. so
I'm basically stuck.
OK, now with debian builds depends
What is it going to solve :
for you :
- you can recompile the packages you consider as CPU-intensive, and
Optimizable.
for Mr X
- he can recompile the packages he wants with SSL support
for me :
- I can get my Samba to work with LDAP
OK, but what do you do when there is an upgrade ? you have to keep track of
the packages you build from debian builds,
and when you see an upgade (let's say you use woody), you recompile your
packages by hand, with the changes you did
in the debian/rules files. Great !!! so you did all these modifications in
every app's debian/rules file, just to do the same
for the next version ? again, and again ?
And if you want to recompile ALL your packages with your CPU optimizations ?
how to do ?
Now, let's see gentoo's solution :
- First of all during installation, you define
- the CPU optimization you want to compile all your apps with
- your "USE" variable..
so, Your USE variable would be something like :
USE="kde pdq -ssl"
mr X's one would be
USE="-X ssl"
mine would be
USE="ldap gnome X -Qt"
then, You, Mr X and me would have to type the EXACT same commands to compile
our systems with the options WE WANT..
Isn't that terrible ?
Sam
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