On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:19:19 +0200 Arnoud Engelfriet wrote: > Francesco Poli wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:05:36 +0200 Arnoud Engelfriet wrote: > > > Ok, then I would suggest moving that out of the first sentence and > > > into a new paragraph. "The above exception only applies for the > > > situations described in Exhibit Z". Then you can write an Exhibit > > > Z for your own trademark(s). > > > > Well, won't it be way too detailed, if a separate Exhibit is needed? > > Possible. It's kind of tricky with a template, especially when > dealing with unregistered marks. If you put it in one sentence, > people may limit themselves. If you make people write an exhibit, > they may overdo themselves and hurt their legal position. Or > (maybe worse?) forget to actually _include_ the exhibit, and then > what? I acknowledge that it's tricky, but I think we should try and draft a template which is good, but, at the same time, not too far away from what is needed for Debian (otherwise we will create a template that will be heavily modified for the Debian case, which is really suboptimal at best...). > > > > Right. My problem with that is that Z can change over time, but > > > the definition of Z won't change with that. > > > > Does the Debian Project *desire* that the meaning of the Official > > Use Logo can change over time (without intervention by GR, I mean)? > > I don't think so[1]: that's why I said that a clarification on its > > meaning should be kept in its trademark notice. > > Well, that may be so, but I thought the idea was to make a template > license and not a Debian-specific license. A template should also be > suitable for projects or companies that envisage changing scope of > activities. As I said above, a template which is not too distant from Debian needs. So maybe, the template could be suitable for those who like to clarify the meaning of their logos. Anyone who prefers to avoid specifying that, can just drop the "representing [Z]" part, right? [...] > > The license says you cannot create confusion with the Debian Project > > and the Debian distributions. > > Creating confusion with the Debian Project seems to be disallowed... > > Why do you conclude there is confusion? > > The mere fact that I use the name and logo of the project can't > be reason enough to assume affiliation or association. Mmmh, the Debian Official Use Logo implies endorsement by the Debian Project. This is currently the case, and I think the Debian Project wants to keep that feature (again, IANADD, opinions of actual DDs welcome). Hence, if someone places the Official Use Logo on his/her products and sells them, he/she is asserting that those products are endorsed by the Debian Project: if they are not actually endorsed, he/she is misusing the logo. Or not? > The whole > point of licensing the mark this way is to allow others to use the > name and logo. To use them as long as there's no confusion going on. If a logo means endorsement, you cannot use it on non endorsed products. But you should be able to apply it to endorsed products (if, for instance, you sell official Debian CDs and DVDs, I think you should be allowed to apply the Official Use Logo on them). [...] > > > > [X] = Debian Open Use Logo > > > > [Z] = Debian Project and Debian distributions > > > > Nobody is allowed to use [X] (or a confusingly similar sign) to > > > > refer to IBM, or to Slackware, or to Microsoft, or to MacOS X, [...] > > I'm not following you here. > > I wasn't sure what you were saying in the > > > part, and jumped > to conclusions. You talked about "IBM, or to Slackware, or to > Microsoft, or to MacOS" and I read that in the context of the > Debian sign. My interpretation was that you wanted the Debian > license to forbid the creation of confusion with *anyone's* logo. > Sorry about that. Ah, that's OK, thanks for the clarification. -- http://frx.netsons.org/doc/nanodocs/etch_workstation_install.html Need to read a Debian etch installation walk-through? ..................................................... Francesco Poli . GnuPG key fpr == C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4
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