On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 01:51:57PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > On Sun, 19 May 2002, Marcus Brinkmann wrote: > > On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 12:36:35AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > > But that does not go for the filesystem. Debian GNU/Hurd > > > will still be Debian; If GNU doesn't like that, then GNU must make > > > it's own Hurd-distribution, and not try to change Debian. > > > > I hope nobody forgets that I was a Debian member over a year before I got > > my GNU account. You make it sound as if there is a hard line with Debian > > on the one side, and GNU on the other, but there is no such line. > > Actually, I got that feeling from Jeroen's mails. That was the main reason > I sent this mail, not because I think or feel that the line is there. No. It's GNU/Linux on one side, the GNU system on the other side and BSD on the third side. Those are 3 different operating systems. Debian wants to be package those. It not that is one operating system. > After all, I'm not involved in the Hurd port in any way. You don't have to be involved, just apply common sense. > The way I understand Jeroen's mails is "GNU Coding standards are the way > to go; everything else is braindead". If that understanding is incorrect, > then forget everything I mailed on the subject; if not, then I feel you > (Jeroen) should implement GNU's coding standards somewhere else. Debian > has its own "Coding Standards", and they're different from what GNU > says. The Hurd port should implement Debian's policy wherever possible, > and issue policy amendments through proper channels where not instead of > saying that Debian's policy is braindead, and ignoring it. The GNU Coding Standards are the way to go in the GNU system. I don't really care much about what other operating systems do, but we have to specify which directories packages in Debian use. I did not say that everything else is braindead. I said that BSD wasn't braindead for example. I think that the FHS is braindead and I have my reasons for thinking that. I think the GNU Coding Standards are much better. I have the right to think and say that, that's called free speech. And indeed Debian policy needs to be changed. But before a change can happen, there needs to be a consensus. If you don't agree with each other, you need to discuss those issues, exactly what I want to do, but when I try to I get called a troll. I wanted to make the FHS compatible with the GNU Coding Standards, but because I already saw what the people on debian-devel thought about libexec and other things, I don't really feel like going to those closed-minded FHS people to change their opinion. I will be treated as a fool anyhow, just like here. And the common opinion here is that the FHS should be used for the GNU system. I'm not going to fuck up the GNU system with the FHS, just because the Debian dictators think the GNU system should be exactly like GNU/Linux. I'm a Hurd developer because the Hurd is different, I want to keep it different. It doesn't make sense to make the GNU system totally the same as GNU/Linux, we could better develop GNU/Linux then. Instead of changing the FHS or Debian, I'm going to implement the GNU Coding standards somewhere else. I build a GNU/Linux from scratch once, it's not that hard and it's even easier with GNU because of the consistency of "./configure --prefix=;make;make install" the GNU system has. I wanted to change Debian, but I walked to a wall of arrogant closed-minded people with no time and those people have all the power over Debian. I gave up, it's just wasting time. And I'm not the only one who thinks like this, I'm just the only one who shouts it in the hope it will change in the future. > Again, this is based on what I understood from Jeroen's mails, not on > anything else. You was in the right direction. I hope I clarified everything for you. Maybe there is hope for Debian if there are enough people like you. You can at least discuss with somebody with a different opinion without automatically going into flame mode. But I'm afraid all such people will gave up sooner or later because of those closed-minded cabals. It's not that I want to fight against Debian. I want to cooperate, but I'm not going to give up my ideals for that. Jeroen Dekkers -- Jabber ID: jdekkers@jabber.org IRC ID: jeroen@openprojects GNU supporter - http://www.gnu.org
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