Welp, I got hurd installed and after installing apt was able to upgrade it and everything appears to be working now. So what can I do to help? :) as always, nick nick@grawk.net * http://www.fargus.net/nick Developer - Systems Engineer - Mad System Guru - MOO Sales He picks up scraps of information/He's adept at adaptation Because for strangers and arrangers/Constant change is here to stay