(On my phone, I hate this ui, sorry for the CC Russ)
On Jul 19, 2013 5:30 PM, "Russ Allbery" <rra@debian.org> wrote:
>
> David Kalnischkies <kalnischkies@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Of course, both analysis are obviously flawed as this popcon data can't
> > really be interpreted that way as its an apple to banana comparison and
> > way too few datapoints, but everyone likes misinterpret statistics as
> > "proven" by this thread – and statistics say that I am a pro-faker!
>
> > "I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself."
> > -- Winston Churchill
>
> [...]
>
> > P.S.: Everyone who is now trying to disprove my "facts" has missed the
> > point.
>
> Yes, exactly.
>
> The point is that none of this really means very much at this point, for a
> whole bunch of reasons. Ways to use non-sysvinit init systems are not
> widely publicized, neither upstart nor systemd are (yet) that widely
> supported, and both are quite firmly "experimental" configurations at this
> point. There's nothing *wrong* with that; it just means that if you're
> trying to use popcon as a democratic vote on which one people like better,
> there's simply no data there.
>
> We're still very much in the "installing things to try them out" stage.
>
> For example, as soon as I get my new laptop back from servicing, the
> systemd numbers will go up by one, because I want to try running it for a
> while so that my opinions are based on facts and so that I can start
> adding systemd unit files to some of my packages. I don't have the same
> level of need to do so for upstart because I can see upstart on Ubuntu
> boxes, although I'm looking around for a good system to run with upstart
> for a while as well for similar reasons. None of those really constitute
> user choices or votes or whatnot for that particular init system.
>
> I would *hope* a lot of Debian developers would do things like that, for
> any of the options! There's no substitute for actually trying the
> software and seeing how easy it is to use, how well it works, and how
> difficult it is to support. There are a bunch of good reasons to install
> packages, even if one isn't going to use them regularly. Among other
> things, it's often the easiest way to read the documentation so that one
> knows what people are even talking about!
Yes. This. I was a pretty avid syatemd "hater", but having used it for a solid 6 months, I can't imagine using anything else. I find myself installing systemd as one of the first things I do when I get a new install.
If you're laying down systemd criticism - *try* systemd for a month.
My 2c,
T
P.s. sorry if this comes out HTML.
>
> Maybe at some point in the future when whatever options we've converged on
> have been widely publicized and everyone knows how to switch and test and
> whatnot we might be able to gauge something about levels of interest from
> popcon. But it's going to be a while before we're at that point.
>
> --
> Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
>
>
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