Am 22.11.2012 16:57, schrieb Ian Jackson:
Michael Schmitt writes ("Re: debian mate"):Am 21.11.2012 10:30, schrieb Neil Williams:As part of the Debian release team it is Adam's call to make. He's declared his decision which is fully in line with the freeze policy and that's that. There is no point even thinking about MATE in Wheezy any longer. It's done, closed, ended - denied. Move along now, nothing to see here.Please calm down. Please, don't domineer opinions of others based on such questionable arguments. I really prefer the open-minded approach here. You don't have to agree but to just say "They said no, so stop bickering" feels horribly wrong.Neil's message was entirely appropriate.
I guess I did get lost in time there... somewhat. Because as I answered his mail I thought he wrote that after I already told *numerous* times that I had droped my "insane suggestion". I still think his tone was too harsh, but I may be a bit sensitive there, so an overall apology is needed from my part.
Like so many of these kind of arguments with are controversial outside Debian as well as within Debian, many of the people here aren't aware of how we do things here, who is in charge, and what decisions have been made.
That was one of the problems... I was not aware that there was already a decision made. I had the *strong* impression everybody just assumed it would be too late and not worth bothering anyway. See, I am so damn convinced, that with wheezy many desktop users will be lost and grumpy and that is very very unfortunate. Anyway. I thought what if most maintainers don't see the desktop users at all and for sure, all maintainers that are concerned of desktop users as they package desktop-related stuff like KDE, Xfce and so on and so forth would just be interested in their own consumers. The gnome2-users just do not have any lobby anymore, as most gnome-maintainers seem to be very happy with gnome3 these days. So I took the liberty to become their lobby! :D. If I re-read my mails here, I still think I made a not-so-bad job with that. I was rather polite, calm and focused. Not trying to battle with anyone, just trying to make a point. And I hope those willing to think about the whole issue would at least grant me that.
And for the record, the details are somewhat blurry, but as I use Debian for almost 10 years now at least the overall workflow is not a mystery to me. :)
Everything Neil said was entirely true. And discussing it further is just wasting everyone's time.
Ack.
If anyone feels that the Debian Release Team have made the wrong decision here, there are escalation routes available within the project. You have been told that they don't want to discuss it further here.
And that was about the time I dropped my idea. Many many thanks to Russ there. It was a pleasure to discuss that utterly insane suggestion in a very calm and polite way. He did convince me, the best thing that can happen with such issues. As I am very committed and a strong believer in the gnome2^wMATE-ish way of ui-design, I don't like orders and decisions without merit there. And on that note, Russ was the only one from TC kind of voting for "no"... at least I had (and still do) no idea the TC already discussed the issue and came to a negative conclusion. And I did think about raising that issue in front of the them but decided to drop the idea before it came that far.
So if you don't like that decision it should be escalated to the Technical Committee. But I can tell you now that if you escalate to the TC you will get short shrift. (Or what passes for short shrift within the TC, anyway.)
I guess you may be right. :)
So Neil was right to say "drop it".
It was not what he said, but how he said it. But as already said... I may be overly sensitive there. :)
Ian.
regards Michael