Re: The term "Custom Debian Distribution" (Was Re: [custom] The term "flavor" and encouraging work on Debian)
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On 2003-12-05 16:36, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 03:20:45AM -0600, cobaco <cobaco@linux.be> wrote:
> > _ideally_ there are no changes. In practice there will be.
>
> Why?
because it takes time to change things in Debian, example:
as far as I'm aware everyone involved with CDD's agrees that low priority
debconf questions combined with debconf-preseeding are the way to go
regarding CDD-specific configuration of packages on installation. However
at the moment this is simply not completely possible
-> while we're working to change it so that this is possible a temporary
solution is necessary (otherwise we can't provide an out-of-the-box
solution that works for our target group). As this should be a
temporary workaround there's nobody trying to get it into Debian
(instead we're trying to change things so debconf-preseeding can take
care of all our needs)
-> if you don't allow temporary solutions while low priority debconf
question get included, than there currently are no CDD's as
custom configuration is necessary to support a CDD's target group
out-of-the-box.
> I'm sorry, but I really have a hard time with this. A Custom Debian
> Distribution is nothing more than what is provided within Debian proper,
> as Andreas said. While a Debian subproject may consider and make use of
> stuff in development that is outside of Debian while transitioning it to
> be "pure Debian", the formal definition of CDD cannot include materials
> outside of Debian main, otherwise it is not Debian, and cannot contain the
> name "Debian" in its title.
IMHO as long as both a and b below apply it can be called a CDD.
a) doesn't cause problems when mixed with standard Debian packages (i.e.
pointing your sources.list to the Debian mirrors should just work without
problems)
b) "its use"/"its being outside of Debian" is temporary awaiting changes or
additions to Debian (which can take quite awhile to filter through if, like
Skolelinux, the CDD uses stable as a base)
>Skolelinux, as you say, is a perfect example
> of this. Skolelinux is not a CDD. It is a project in transition to
> becoming a CDD.
(obviously) I disagree here IMHO Skolelinux is a CDD in transition to
becoming a debian-subset.
>As I understand it, Skolelinux is not entirely there yet,
> for the reasons you have already mentioned. It 's has its own history and
> its own needs which are for the moment unresolvable within Debian.
with the exception of ltsp which isn't _yet_ in Debian, all non-debian
software in Skolelinux has to do with configuration. these packages either
- will be included into Debian at some point (e.g the ltsp packages)
- will be/are superseeded by newer Debian packages (e.g. user-sme wich
provides the sami keyboard for Xfree86, this is already present in
the newer Xfree86 packages)
- should become unnecessary because of improvents to Debian (e.g
debian-edu-config which uses cfengine to do custom configuration
while this can't be done by debconf-preseeding, and which changes
other packages' configuration files, and thus wouldn't be accepted
into Debian)
> Furthermore, it does not contain 'Debian' in its title, so there is no
> confusion. This is clearly a Debian-derivative, not a CDD.
it doesn't have Debian in the name -> it's a Debian-derivative
i.e having Debian in the name is a prerequisite for a CDD!?!
Surely you're joking?
> Now, I'm not saying that Debian derivatives shouldn't exist. It is
> important to acknowledge that they do, but at the same time work towards
> eliminating, as much as possible, the need for their existence outside of
> Debian main.
agreed
>Not all reasons for being a derivative (or "Debian-based
> distribution") can be eliminated (such as the inclusion of non-free or
> contrib software). However, I believe the reasons for Skolelinux not
> being a CDD can and will eventually be resolved.
IMHO there are 2 main differences between a CDD and a Debian-derivative:
1. a CDD aims to improve Debian so that Debian will at some point include
everything needed to support the target-group and needs of the CDD (at which
point it will become a Debian-subset). A Debian-derivative on the other hand
doesn't have this inclusion into Debian as an objective.
2. the software provided by a CDD can be mixed freely with standard Debian
package without causing problems. Whereas a Debian-derivative doesn't
(necessarily) ensure this.
Skolelinux conforms to both 1. and 2. above -> is a CDD (in my opinion)
Lindows (for instance) does not comply to 1. and 2. above -> is a
Debian-derivative.
- --
Cheers, cobaco
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