Re: Debian packages and freedesktop.org (Gnome, KDE, etc) menu entries

[Mathieu Roy <yeupou@gnu.org>]

Marc Wilson <msw@cox.net> said:

> On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 12:57:53PM +0100, Mathieu Roy wrote:
>> > Some or all of: twm, pdmenu, blackbox, afterstep, fluxbox, gtk-menu,
>> > wmaker, fvwm2, enlightenment, etc, consult /etc/menu-methods for more.
>> > There are dozens of programs that use the debian menus that would have
>> > no reason to use the .desktop stuff.
>> 
>> Can you name the ones that are still developed in that list?
>
> I couldn't pass this up:
>
> twm         - admittedly, bug-fixes only
> pdmenu      - this is a window manager?
> blackbox    - alive and under current development
> afterstep   - alive and under current development
> fluxbox     - alive and under current development
> gtk-menu    - this is a window manager?
> wmaker      - alive and under current development
> fvwm2       - alive and under current development
> e           - well, there are CVS commits, call it what you will
>
> I only see *one* window manager in that list that isn't alive (twm).
> Enlightenment is, of course, debatable, and always has been. ^_^
>
> Not that whether or not a package has a release every ten minutes or every
> ten months has jack to do with whether or not it's useful software.
>
> There are any number of other window managers that couldn't care less about
> .desktop files, yet (a) provide menus, (b) are packaged in Debian.

Sure. However, I use WindowMaker since several years now, and apart
from bug fixes, I did not notice real changes over years (the
changelog does not speak otherwise, it's almost only about bugs and
i18n updates).

About blackbox, <http://blackboxwm.sourceforge.net/>, there no news
since September the 2nd... 2002. 

It's maybe a mistake to say that these projects are no longer active
at all, however their activity by comparison to GNOME and KDE is
pretty small.

I'm not criticizing inactivity, there are understandable reasons
behind it.
For instance, on WindowMaker website, it's told that the development
is not going on because the main authors are busy in real life: in
GNOME and KDE case, I think that numerous author works for these
projects in their real professionnal life (am I wrong?), so it is
easier to keep moving.



>> Why do you say that this programs would have no reason to use the
>> .desktop stuff? What reasons would they have to use the Debian Menu
>> instead?
>
> They don't.  That simple data point seems to be missing from the entire
> discussion.  They use their own internal menu formats.
>
> Thus, we have the menu package, which takes *Debian's*
> window-manager-independent menu entries, and creates for each of these
> window managers something that they can digest in their own format.
>
> Saying "Debian should provide .desktop files" is all well and good.
> Perhaps it should even be encouraged.  But there is still a great need for
> what the menu package does.

Ok, it would be indeed interesting that this Debian tool that make
the conversion get compatible with .desktop files. This tool would be
interesting for any distributions that ships these wm also.

For instance, if I correctly understood the story, RedHat stopped
shipping WindowMaker because they do not want to support a window
manager that do not follow the agreements between KDE and GNOME
people, freedesktop.org in fact.


Regards,

-- 
Mathieu Roy

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