On 18.02.2014 20:23, Simon McVittie wrote: > On 18/02/14 18:16, Markus Koschany wrote: [...] > You have free assets and the free Sauerbraten engine, but putting them > together does not get you the game Sauerbraten, no more than putting > together the OpenArena data and the ioquake3 engine gets you Quake III > Arena (but it does get you OpenArena). I think you misunderstood my proposal. It is absolutely clear to me that sauerbraten-wake6, in its current state, is neither a replacement for sauerbraten-data nor a standalone game. However I do care about package affiliations to main, contrib or non-free and when I take care of something I want to improve the status quo. > I don't have any problem with promoting things that are not part of > Debian. Lots of good things are not part of Debian, and some of them > are even Free. Wikipedia content is available under CC-BY-SA-3.0, but > it isn't all in Debian (to the ftpmasters' great relief, I'm sure). I wasn't talking about something unspecific outside of Debian but about an already existing package in contrib and the terms contrib and main defined by Debian's policy. Since only packages in main are really acknowledged and supported, my hope was that a package like -wake6, which complies with the requirements for a package in main IMO, could be moved to this section, too. To express it differently: I think the current interpretation of Debian's policy is too strict in regard to sauerbraten-wake6. >> Even if sauerbraten-wake6 contained hundreds of free images and >> maps, it wouldn't qualify for main either. > > If it contained enough content to be a game analogous to OpenArena in > its own right, it could be packaged alongside an engine that can play > it. I think that's fine, as long as it doesn't claim to be > Sauerbraten. I don't know what resource files the Sauerbraten engine > needs in order to be useful: is -wake6 enough, or does it also need > player/weapon graphics or other missing bits? A map or even hundred maps are not sufficient to create a standalone game for the cube2 engine. Player and weapon graphics are still needed. My point was that even a larger sauerbraten-wake6 map content package with much more assets would also be deemed inappropriate for main, which makes working on this package less attractive. > If there are bits missing that would be necessary to make this > hypothetical Free game based on the Sauerbraten engine run correctly, > then I think the test it fails for inclusion in main is not > "unsuitable licensing" but rather "has a grave bug: doesn't work". I never made the claim to create a new free game from sauerbraten-wake6. I am only interested that the package gets more attention and support by being part of main but it appears this fails because the majority wants it to be seen as a package that strictly needs the cube2 engine for being useful. I tend to disagree here. >> As I have outlined before the package consists of game assets that >> could be used in different projects, under different circumstances >> and for different purposes. > > Right, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should be in a binary > package in main. All the files in src:quake are Free, and you can edit > them with a text editor or Inkscape, or print them out and make them > into a hat[1], or whatever you want; but we still package src:quake in > contrib, because in practice, what it's there for is integrating > non-Free (indeed non-gratis) data with a Free engine. That's an unfair comparison. src:quake is rightfully in contrib because it matches exactly the description for being a package in contrib. "wrapper packages or other sorts of free accessories for non-free programs" >> Imagine all the other use cases such as educational ones, learning >> to modify images with image manipulation tools and especially >> teaching people how to create free content for the Sauerbraten >> game. > > The package you're talking about is sauerbraten-wake6, not > openclipart. I think there's a difference of expectation in what those > packages and their dependencies should support :-) I can still imagine that a possible use case is teaching or learning map creation for cube2 engine games. With a little bit of imagination you could add some documentation to the package and voilà. > If what you want is a library of Free content, adding a deb-src (but > not deb) apt source for contrib is fine: everything in contrib is > meant to be Free, just not necessarily useful or installable on its > own. (Hmm, perhaps I should ask the maintainer of > codesearch.debian.net to include contrib, on similar logic?) > > Analogously, not everything in src:openarena-data gets into the binary > package: if you want to use OpenArena as a source of free > textures/etc. (to import into Sauerbraten, or otherwise), the source > package is better for the purpose than the binary package. I really would like to see all free software packages in main. Either the package complies with the Policy requirements or it does not. Markus
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