Re: Installing Acquire::IndexTargets requires a second 'update' - any workaround?
On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 11:48:22AM +0000, Iain Lane wrote:
> Hi, thanks for the reply,
>
> On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 12:05:07PM +0100, David Kalnischkies wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 01, 2016 at 12:35:16PM +0000, Iain Lane wrote:
> > > This feels like an instance of a general problem: that adding new
> > > IndexTargets from Debian packages is a two step process of installing a
> > > package then updating a second time, so I'm wondering if you have any
> > > idaes about how to fix this more generally?
> >
> > Well, upgrades always were a two-step process in that you have to call
> > 'apt update' and after that 'apt full-upgrade'.
>
> Now: update, full-upgrade, update... three-step.
>
> > Worse, installing tools like apt-file or appstream always was a two-step
> > process of install (and configure) and then data-acquire on first (real)
> > start of the tool.
> >
> > That hasn't changed with the introduction of IndexTargets and I don't
> > see how that should be solved – assuming there is a problem as it isn't
> > exactly uncommon that tools after their installation require a bit of
> > configuration and then go on and download a bunch of extra stuff from
> > the web. If we would be talking about a webbrowser downloading its
> > antitracking/malware list, we wouldn't be talking…
>
> The browser would download this on behalf of the users, after offering
> any configuration that it wants to.
>
> For appstream at least, there isn't really any configuration - unless
> you are expecting users to go in and edit
> /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50appstream (how do you even turn this off
> per-repository?)
>
> > […]
> > That was solved so well (← generous self-praise) that the configuration
> > step disappeared at least for the majority of users. What remains is the
> > need for additional data acquisition on first use. As a user, I would
> > accept that given that its a common pattern. As an advanced user who
> > applied additional config I would actually prefer this style… (I am just
> > imagining how annoyed I would be if apt-file would somehow get the data
> > right after install without giving me a chance to configure it first as
> > I have a bunch of sources and archs I don't want/need Contents for…).
>
> Then apt-file's developers should turn it off until the user has
> configured it, no?
>
> If this situation is so terrible, then it is also unnaceptable that you
> have to somehow know to go and fiddle around with apt configuration
> before ever doing an update (and hope that no other tool does one for
> you in the meantime).
No, stuff should be enabled by default.
>
> > But back to topic: In the default install case (and if you really want
> > to) you could package the apt.conf-file separately in a -data package
> > (which presumably would have no dependencies) and install it as part of
> > your bootstrap so it is around at the time apt is first run. Then you
> > just have to run the post-processing (if any) at a later point.
> >
> > Might be that I am too used to all this stuff that I don't see the
> > problem with it anymore…
>
> The problem is that you can't install gnome-software and have it just
> work. Just Working on first install is something that Debian packages
> try to do if there is a reasonable default configuration. There
> absolutely is a reasonable default in this case. It seems to me that it
> is going to be so uncommon for people to want to tweak this that putting
> the burden on all users is quite harsh. I was hoping you could offer a
> solution, but instead you don't even seem to recognise there is anything
> to solve.
There is nothing to solve. Split out the config file into another package
and bootstrap that earlier. We can't just magically update things in the
middle / after an upgrade.
I'd expect gnome software to say: Hey I don't know anything yet, please
wait while I'm refreshing my data when I first open it.
--
Debian Developer - deb.li/jak | jak-linux.org - free software dev
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