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Bug#652631: www.debian.org: please clarify the distinction between 'events@d.o' and 'debian-events-*@lists.d.o'

On 12/25/2011 11:11 PM, Arne Wichmann wrote:
>> b) at least for those who have access to Debian machines nothing is
>>    happening behind the scene, given that 'events@d.o' is archived on
>>    master [8].
>> [8] <http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/events/README?revision=1.8&view=markup>
> I have not. Am I the only one to which this applies?

No. we often have people organizing stuff which are not DDs.

>> c) I do not consider *any* wiki as official documentation, which means
>>    that the wikipage Arne referred to [9] should not be used as such.
>> [9] <http://wiki.debian.org/CategoryEvents>
> On the other hand, a wiki page is a good means to organise events.

And it worked very well for a lot of events.
I doubt there is a better way to organize booth staffing and

>> d) I think there is a misunderstanding of what I wrote at [6], here the
>>    extract of my words:
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>> Submitting an event
>> ===================
>> This is the easiest part: whenever you know of any event Debian is
>> present, simply send an email in English to <events@debian.org> [15].
>> We will then do all the necessary steps to find someone willing to
>> participate/coordinate the Debian presence and announce the event to the
>> appropriate debian-events-* mailing lists [16][17][18][19], if not
>> already done.
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>    As far as I read the text above, the Events team *does* not organize
>>    an event, instead it will (or it should or, if you prefer, I think it
>>    should):
>>    1. receive notice of an event Debian will take part in.
>>    2. if not already present, find the main responsible for that event
>>       (we request that for the entry in the event page [10][11]).
>>    3. add the event to the event page [11].
>>    4. if not already done, announce the event to the (language/region-
>>       specific) debian-events-*@ mailing list, so the *official* event
>>       page at [11] can be used.
>> [10] <http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/events/event.form?revision=1.10&view=markup>
>> [11] <http://www.debian.org/events>
>>    I still fail to see why/how you think that the Events team wants to
>>    centralize how events are managed, while we try to publicize as
>>    much/best as possible the highest number of events *through* official
>>    channels.
>>    At DebConf11, during the Events BoF [12] this topic was discussed
>>    again and I thought what I summarized in the report [13] was the
>>    consensus drawn from the discussion, let me quote my words:
> My argument is: event coordination should be possible without a central
> instance. 


> At the moment the workflow is: mail the event to
> debian-events-$locale (using suitable locale), the organizer mails that he
> is doing so to the same mailing list and typically creates a wiki page for
> further organizing. There is no human single point of failure in that
> workflow. Moreover the workflow works for everyone, not only DDs.
> I am not against informing events@d.o, though.
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>> First, for the mailing list, the idea would be to still use the
>> already-established debian-events-$SOMETHING [13] mailing list for
>> coordination, with a "new" mailing list for announcement only (both
>> minor and major events).  This should be a restricted-posting mailing
>> list (probably Events and Press membership only): its aim is to provide
>> email notifications whenever a new event is added to the website.  A
>> parallel approach would be to duplicate the announcements on Planet
>> Debian, but these points must be coordinated with the Publicity team.
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>> [12] <http://penta.debconf.org/dc11_schedule/events/731.en.html>
>> [13] <http://lists.debian.org/87fwlbctds.fsf@gismo.pca.it>
>>    The Events team has not started yet to use debian-news@ as the
>>    "general" mailing list for *all* announcements [14], but from the
>>    extract above it seems clear to me that in case Debian will gain
>>    other *official* channels, we will use them (e.g. blog.d.o).
>> [14] <http://bugs.debian.org/643647>
>>> And I'm still wondering if a German-speaking debian-events-de@l.d.o
>>> list (like the Dutch speaking debian-events-nl@l.d.o) wouldn't be a
>>> good idea either.
>> From an announcement POV, yet another mailing list would be a pain,
>> because this means that the Events team, *if not notified*, will miss
>> more events.  Just to provide an example: Debian will be present at the
>> forthcoming 28C3 [15], but no one told the Events team about that,
>> except Paul Wise last Saturday via IRC [16] (FYI he is acting as a proxy
>> for us since a while).
> CCC organisation is as chaotic as the event (it even has chaos in its
> name). I do not feel that it is a good example for anything.

May be the events team should - instead of founding itself - talk to those
people who are known to provide merch and booth material if they want to join
and what they can provide?

>> [15] <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEventsDe/2011/28C3>
>> [16] <irc://irc.oftc.net/debian-events>
>> From a coordination POV, given that as Arne wrote debian-events-eu@ is
>> low-traffic, I still think too much fragmentation is worthless and it
>> will keep away contributors.  Again, just to provide an example: I do
>> not speak German, but I was happy to help for the Debian booth at the
>> Chemnitzer Linux-Tage 2011 [16].  This because everything was done
>> through debian-events-eu@ and not a localized mailing list.
> The other side of the argument is that english lists for german events are
> an unnecessary communication barrier. Not that I feel that this is a
> decisive argument.

Should not be such an issue imho. In the worst case people could post German to
the -eu list, somebod wil lhelp out and translate.

>> [16] <http://lists.debian.org/87bp0rxlwq.fsf@gismo.pca.it>
>>> (Cc to events@d.o, so that they are aware of this discussion in case
>>> they really don't follow debian-events-eu@l.d.o closely enough.)
>> Thank you Axel, the *latter* is the problem: ATM the Events team has to
>> monitor various channels (IRC, mailing lists and planets, even
>> non-Debian [17]) to be aware of events, while as I see it it should be
>> the other way around.
>> [17] <http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20111210.235459.a8d46a5b.en.html>
> On the other hand, I feel that the events team should read debian-events-*
> (at least collectively - not necessarily everyone should read every list).

Even better: the even team should consist of people from each d-events-$(locale)
list (probably those who are organizing a lot of stuff).

> In the case of non-english lists a proxy might be used.
> So, the main question for me is, how should my future workflow look like
> when announcing and/or organizing an event.

 Bernd Zeimetz                            Debian GNU/Linux Developer
 http://bzed.de                                http://www.debian.org
 GPG Fingerprint: ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485  DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F

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