Re: debian

[Jeff Albro <jeff@antistatic.com>]

On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Offer Kaye wrote:

> Hi,
> I tried looking in debian.org for the "testing" version to download- I
> looked for over an hour before giving up- then I got smart, went to the

Well, as testing is not officially released, I'm not sure that it needs to
be easy to find.  On the other hand alot of people will be looking for it.

> RedHat site, and within 1 minute and ~5 mouse clicks I got to the
> explanation of what to download and to the download files themselves.
> After that I understood I had to look for something called an iso cd image

Hmmmm.....  So you didn't know that was one of the most common ways to
burn a bootable CD?  (I'm trying to understand where you are coming from.)

> file, but even then it took me another 5 minutes to find the files I wanted-
> the "unofficial woody" release at
> ftp://ftp.fsn.hu/pub/CDROM-Images/debian-unofficial/woody/ . And I still
> don't know how to get from the cdimage site http://cdimage.debian.org/ to
> the official CD images files- I tried answering the questions on the page,
> but that just led me to a page (http://cdimage.debian.org/ch1211.html)
> telling me I had to download something called the Pseudo-Image Kit. I
> **don't want to** (and even if I wanted to, I have no way to) install some
> program on my workstation at work, I just want to download the cd image
> files.

Damn Straight.  That annoyed the #$%#$ out of me when I was installing
potato.  I know someone went to a ton of work to set up those questions,
but I just don't think they give the desired result, which is "let me
start installing now".  (of course, install impatience can lead to other
problems down the line, but I think it's too common to be ignored)

The other "low bandwidth" option is to download the
"/dists/stable/main/disks-XXXX/" files and have a go at it, but there are
no directions on how to do that from that section that I could find.  A
newbie would have to be crazy to try that.

> Sigh... i'm starting to understand why people say the installation of Debian
> is difficult- if this is what I had to go through just to find the
> installation files, what will I go through actually installing the OS?
>

The actual install is not too awful... as long as you understand
partitioning and you have no wierd hardware to deal with.  The biggest
hurdle I find is figuring out which modules to install with no help.
That's a skill I didn't think I would need when I first installed slink
many moons ago.

The good news is that after woody that install system will die a deserving
death.

 >
Comments are welcome :-) >

Thank you for your user report!!! This is excellent feedback to have.
One of the "issues" with debian, is that many developers see it as a
"second" linux to install.  They seem to expect you to cut your teeth on a
redhat or mandrake and THEN come to debian.


> PS, the steps to find the iso files in the redhat site:
> 1. Type redhat.com in your browser URL bar and hit Enter.
> (http://www.redhat.com/)
> 2. Click on the word "DOWNLOAD" on the upper right hand corner of the page.
> (http://www.redhat.com/apps/download/)

WAAAAY in the upper right hand corner in small letters.

> 3. Click on the "Red Hat Linux 7.2" link in the center of the page.
> (http://www.redhat.com/download/rhlinux72.html)
> 4. Read the download instructions in the "How to download Red Hat Linux"
> link. (http://www.redhat.com/download/howto_download.html)
> 5. From 3, Click on the "Download Now!" link.
> (ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/7.2/en/)
> 6. Click on "iso". (ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/7.2/en/iso/)
> 7. Click on "i386". (ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/7.2/en/iso/i386/)

I'm confused.  You figured out that you could burn an iso on the debian
site, but then didn't get that information on the redhat site?  I looked
and I did find it in the "how to download redhat" link.

>
> and you're there. Now why can't the Debian site be this simple !?!?
>

I think debian could (and should) make more strides to becoming more
simple.  However, it will take a specific effort to simplify without
ruining the interfaces the expert debian users have come to rely upon.
It is also, fundamentally, about scratching SOMEONE elses itch.

-Jeff  (Not part of the debian team, speaking only for myself)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Albro                                      jeff@antistatic.com

Customer Interaction Consultant                          Boston, MA