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Re: RFC <grr>okay, i hereby volunteer.</grr>



OK W. Trillich,

I'm listening. Was just away for the weekend.

Since I started the discussion about the Debian home page content I'll
try to assist you wherever and whenever I can.

Svante Signell

w trillich writes:
 > from the private support i've gotten over my 'HFTFMADBUFE'
 > rantings, i can tell i struck a chord: this is not specific
 > to debian, it's a unix/linux-wide situation. the documentation 
 > is hither and yon, and the newbies don't have the knowledge
 > of which tools to use in order to find what they're looking for.
 > 
 > and this is why they ask.
 > 
 > expert advice on this list is often the simplest way for the
 > newbies to get their front-end aligned, so to speak, yet it's
 > frustrating for the experts to see the same simple questions
 > asked time after time.
 > 
 > that the information exists is not enough: the lost ark was
 > placed in the warehouse, but not even indiana jones would be
 > able to find it--even though it's right there! you only need
 > to know which box, and which aisle, to find it. for those
 > who do know which box and which aisle, it gets tedious
 > answering the same simple questions.
 > 
 > so.
 > 
 > i volunteer (and would love some assistance from
 > some of you others--Svante? are you listening? hmm?) 
 > to spend some of my free [sic] time to make it easier
 > for newbies to find their way around (so that the
 > experts can focus on answering more challenging 
 > questions and devise more cool stuff for the rest of
 > us to use in the future) by launching a two-pronged 
 > attack:
 > 
 > 
 > 1) tinker with the debian web pages to make it more
 > difficult for newbies to NOT find what they're
 > looking for. examples:
 > 	a. search field, top left number one always always always.
 > 		if searching the whole site is kaput, then add a
 > 		menu for choosing whether to search mailing list
 > 		archives, packages or bugs
 > 	b. newbie links:
 > 		- debian faq / faq-o-matic
 > 		- debian / linux glossary
 > 		- where/how to download debian
 > 		- will debian work on my hardware? [ports]
 > 			- i386
 > 			- powerpc
 > 			- sparc
 > 			etc
 > 		- how to upgrade to a newer debian [apt-get / apt]
 > 			- have a cgi form to generate via Q&A
 > 			apt-get sources.list items
 > 			- show how to determine which debian they've got
 > 		- how to upgrade one package [apt-get]
 > 		- manuals / documentation
 > 		- ask other debian users [subscribe to debian-user]
 > 	c. have the remainder of the left column contain
 > 		- quick-start guide
 > 		- tip of the day (maybe make a fortune database for this?)
 > 		- debian mailing lists galore
 > 		- why debian? [about the debian organization]
 > 			- philosophy
 > 			- contact
 > 			- volunteer
 > 			- donate
 > 			etc.
 > 		- languages available (use nationality flag icons)
 > 			[need to fix "??????? ?? (GB) ?? (Big5) 
 > 			??? ??? Dansk..." regardless]
 > 	d. have the right column remain news-like
 > 
 > i think it's safe to assume that the more-knowledgeable
 > folk have less trouble navigating, so we can put their
 > stuff further down in the hierarchy or at least further
 > down on the page.
 > 
 > online html documentation must be updated so that any reference
 > to 'currently' is replaced with 'as of xx/yy/zz' to reduce 
 > misinformation--such as the outdated comment that "hamm (2.0) is
 > the current debian release."
 > 
 > 
 > 2) start on a script (perl? shell?) called, perhaps,
 > "NEWBIE" that'll take any number of arguments
 > and scan the local system for
 > 	- locate <xyz>
 > 	- apropos <xyz>
 > 	- man <xyz>
 > 	- info <xyz>
 > 	- /usr/{share/,}doc/<xyz>{,-doc}/*
 > 	- http://www.*.debian.org/doc/<xyz>
 > 	- /var/cache/apt/*
 > 	- dpkg -S / dpkg -L
 > 	- iterate thru $PATH to find matching commands
 > 	- other suggestions?
 > and display command options to get the documentation
 > sought, or actually run the commands themselves directly.
 > 
 > it may require its own flat/text database of sorts, perhaps
 > using an input value of english phrases describing what
 > a newbie might be looking for, and an output value of
 > a list of commands (or inf/man/http commands) that answer
 > that request.
 > 
 > e.g.
 > 	"file manager" -> "mc, ..."
 > 	"receiving/receive email" -> "fetchmail, mutt ..."
 > 	"upgrades/upgrading" -> "apt-get, dpkg, alien..."
 > 	"help" -> "man, info..."
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 2a) maybe create a TOTD to implement a tip-of-the-day,
 > once per login. such as
 > 	"looking for help sending email? try 'newbie send email'."
 > 
 > 	"to update from 2.1 (slink) to 2.2 (potato), ..."
 > 
 > 	"to launch XWindows, try 'startx'; to install it,
 > 	do 'apt-get install X'"
 > 
 > 	"expect to be confused now and then; it's part of the
 > 	learning process ..."
 > 	[not intending that to be funny--maybe if we warn them that
 > 	not everything will fall into their laps, the newbies may
 > 	be less inclined to think that the gurus OWE them answers.]
 > 
 > 	"to configure your domain name, see 'man named' or..."
 > 
 > 	"if you use XWindows, try 'apt-cache search dotfile' or..."
 > 
 > perhaps we can find a way to distill answers from debian
 > lists into such a utility. the experts are of course free
 > to disable it.
 > 
 > --
 > 
 > what's the procedure [RTFM, here we go] for getting
 > started with something like this in the debian world?
 > 
 > comments and recruits are very welcome. newbies unite!
 > 
 > 
 > -- 
 > Unsubscribe?  mail -s unsubscribe debian-user-request@lists.debian.org < /dev/null



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