[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: Apropos of spam..

Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
This is probably getting offtopic for d-women, if someone wants me to
shut up, just tell me, and I'll do it.

2008/10/10 Gaudenz Steinlin <gaudenz@debian.org>:
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 11:08:44AM -0500, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
I sometimes wonder why nobody seems to be in a rush to encourage more
boys to knit, bake cookies, or take up sewing.
Most people aren't in a rush to encourage girls to work with computers
or on other "nerdy" subjects either.

True, but at least there exists a public debate about it. What I was
trying to say is, why is there such a public debate about pushing
girls into traditionally-male dominated fields but no symmetrical
debate for boys?

As I was saying, I somewhat understand this lack of symmetry: it's not
so much about pushing women simply into traditionally male fields of
endeavour, as much as pushing them into the fields of endeavour that
give control. Which is fine.

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, just kinda rambling, sorry.
Picking up on your rambling... and echoing the "tell me to shut up if you want me to" sentiment: At least speaking for culture here in Norway, I certainly see things going the other way - most of all, for the primary occupation of most women only two or three generations ago - housekeeping. Now, that is something that tends to be evenly shared between the members of the family, irrespective of sex.

I don't know about the various professions women tend to be in, though I suspect that this evening-out has happened there as well, possibly to a lesser degree.

And I certainly enjoy baking cookies, so there! :)
I really don't believe in natural predespositions of any kind.
They are simply a to convenient excuse for
not doing anything to overcome these traditions.

The usual argument is that we have no controlled environment to fully
test this, it's a kind of forbidden experiment, but the fact remains
that women are abundant for some tasks and men are abundant for
others. You may blame this all you want on patriarchy and stupid
social mores, but what if, and please don't take this the wrong way,
but what if it simply is true that no matter what environment you put
women in, they will still have a predisposition to act in a certain
way or do certain things?

I wouldn't like that to be true. I don't like the idea that people are
born with predispositions and without control of their lives. But
sometimes I think, "what if it is true? What if our efforts to change
it are for naught?"
My personal guess is that it is due to an infinitesimal predisposition when you average out the sexes, and that this has been amplified into cultural habit by people wanting to fit in with their groups... I'm sure a predisposition might exist, but that humanity is lending it far too much significance. Efforts to reverse the cultural habits (like this list!) are great, and seem to work very well.

-Tore :)

Reply to: