Re: Hello and introduction
> > but for me it had more to do with not feeling "polite" enough and
> > being accused of being too hostile/aggressive.
>
> Stronger emphasis on communication via subtext and innuendo, a focus on
> superficial harmony instead of honesty and discussion (this may be what
> you experienced), commonly a reluctance to try activities seen as "guys'
> stuff", e.g. be "too geeky", or at least to get "too involved" in them
> despite what may be a strong interest. Those are the ones I can think of
> right now.
All the above can certainly be defined as social behaviour that are
traditionnally known as "female", sure.
I'm personnally still in the mood that this is however what women
bring in a male-dominated environment (just like is mine, in my
professionnal activities). So, even though relying only on a social
behaviour putting emphasis on communication and (supposedly)
superficial harmony is not enough to have a good environment, they are
part of it.
In deep technical environments (such as Debian....and my own
prof. environment), being able to listen to others, understand them
and apply the traditional and very well known concepts of good social
interaction (reformulation, putting self in the skin of others, etc.)
is what makes good work relations.
Technical excellence without social skills is (exxagerating just a
little) completely useless.
And, this may sound a little bit traditionally minded, but I
personnally think, from my own experience, that this is what women
are, statistically speaking, more able to bring than men. Don't ask me
why....maybe some social formatting or whatever. This is also what
could be defined as "man-ish" or "woman-ish" behaviour....feel free to
call me a jerk if disagreeing.
> That doesn't mean I like most male-dominated environments either, since
> they certainly have their share of problems, but they tend to at least
> be more direct and thus easier to parse, and I'm not expected to like
> them, so there was no exception to mention.
Being more direct may be a quality but is also often a defect
(default?) when used too strongly....maybe just look some Debian (or
non Debian) mailing lists.
As an example, let's imagine two people disagreeing on a given topic,
say the GFDL being DFSG-compliant or not...
If the one being "not OK with GFDL" just says the other one: "you are
wrong. The GFDL is *this* and *that*"...this is, IMHO,
miscommunication.
This is pushing your own opinion without any effort to listen to the
other's opinion.
Another way, more social-friendly, to say the exact same thing would
be: "I understand you think "foo" (pro DFSG compliance argument) which
makes you conclude that GFDL is DFSG-compliant. My personal
interpreation of this is that "foo" is debatable because of "bar" (con
DFSG compliance argument)".
This is showing that you have listened to the others opinion, are able
to rephrase it...and explain why you have a different opinion.
The first behaviour is, imho, more common in technical
environments. The last one is probably more common in human relations
and "social" environments.
Being able to use the socially acceptable behaviour in a technical
environment is a quality that is very widely searched for. In short,
finding technically excellent people is not that difficult. Finding
technically excellent people that can socially behave properly is way
more difficult and, again, from my own experience, the percentage of
women in the second category is higher..:-)
I completely assume and have already explained that this is what I
think more women can bring to Debian. Not only, for sure...and there
is still room for people (women or men) who don't have these qualities
or don't care about them.
> For one thing, it's focused on getting things done, whether they're
> technical or cultural. It also has no social tax, as far as I can tell.
> One can choose to be actively social, but there are no unsolicited
> attempts to 'include' or 'engage' people, that I've seen.
In this, DW is typically Debian-ish, which is actually what made its
success, imho, and the strong recognition of the project among
existing Debian people.
This is certainly what we deeply owe to the initiators of the
project....and actually perfectly fits my "social skills required"
paragraphs above..:)
> Also, Debian in general is a truly international community, so the
> (civilised) parts of it seems not to make as many assumptions about
> shared culture as a smaller or less diverse one would.
This is certainly something that I've learned from i18n activities as
well and, indeed, this is something that DW and i18n deeply share.
.... Ouch, I spent half of my morning mail-reading slot writing all
this....hope that someone will go down to the end...:)
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