Re: Bug#302572: Fortunes-es contains offensive quotes that should be in fortunes-es-off
Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
tags 302572 - l10n
thanks
Thank you for fixing it so promptly.
The attached list is biased to find proverbs related to women. Bearing in
mind that I'm _not_ going to review all the fortunes currently provided,
pray tell, how I am going to determine which ones should be moved over to
fortunes-es-off?
Right, this was the kind of complaints I got at barrapunto, and grepping for
"mujer" was the quickest way I could think of finding out where the problem
was. Consider that I at first I didn't even know whether these fortunes came
from Debian or what, so this file is a by-product of my sleuthing.
I agree with you that reviewing 1.14 MB of text (in a way that cannot be
automated) is not for the faint of heart, but I assume there are two ways to
fix this:
a) Those of us who want to contribute to Debian but are not too technical
find some joy in being able to provide patches, and actively do a review and
triage of all fortune-es files. This is the "proactive" method.
b) If more offensive quotes are found in fortunes-es, someone will complain,
and we will more or less do the same we just did. This is the "reactive" method.
I am new in Debian lists, so excuse me if this is stating the obvious, and
by all means correct me if I am wrong.
And, by the way, I don't feel these fortunes are offensive:
"Sonríe, tu mujer me ama."
"No hay nada como el amor de una mujer casada. Es una cosa de la que
ningun marido tiene la menor idea."
These two are in the "women are all adulterers/untrustworthy/treacherous"
vein, which is a common trend in the "camioneros" (truckers) and "pintadas"
(grafitti) files, and even in the "refranes" (proverbs) one. For those who
don't speak Spanish, here is what the cookies say:
"Smile, your wife loves me"
"There is nothing like a married woman's love. This is something no husband
knows anything about."
More subtle than "women are like laws, there to be broken/raped" they may
be, but still part of a misogynistic trend.
You seem to have just grepped for 'mujer' and have reported all the
evidences of those fortunes without review.
Not quite. Compare the result "grep "mujer" /etc/share/games/fortunes/*"
with what I sent to the bug report and you will see I did edit the list down
quite a bit. Might have skipped some, true... but not these two.
Quite sincerely, if you want to censor the fortunes-es package (you are the
first to complain in 5 years)
Well, the file is quite big, fortunes-es is not all that widely used, and
most Spanish users so far used to be the young-male unix-fiend type (ie not
as sensitive to the issue, and not as likely to be personally offended by
this), so it just happened that no-one had won the "offense lottery" .
OTOH, barrapunto has a lot of pageviews and is read by people of all walks
of life, including newcomers to Linux which are demographically much more
diverse than the users of five years ago. This accounts for a whole lotta
"offense lottery" tickets in circulation. And we have had several people
claiming prizes. In the last six months we have had a handful of complaints,
both in journals and in private communications to our editors and to
webmaster@.
Previously we had simply deleted "fortunes-camioneros", but this time we
figured that fixing the package fortune-es upstream was better a better
once-and-for-all measure.
> go ahead, but please provide a proper patch
of what content you feel should be moved over to fortunes-es-off.
Thanks, will provide a patch next time.
Cheers, and thanks again for taking the effort to fix this so quickly
despite the low priority.
-- javier candeira
PS Crossposted to the debian-women list and also to the barrapunto-editores
list. Please advise if this is not correct etiquette.
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